My guest is Julian Crawford, CEO of Imperial Paints, which is the US distributor of Ecos Paints, the world’s number one selling organic paint and varnish. We’ll be talking about toxic paints, VOCs, and nontoxic natural paints. Established in the United Kingdom, this proprietary paint technology, is “free from all toxic chemicals, with absolutely zero VOCs and odorless – essentially 7,000 times purer than standard low VOC paints.” Ecos Paint has been used and accredited around the world for over 25 years and has been specified in many prestigious projects including: The Louvre, Googleplex andWestminster Abbey. Not only are their paints nontoxic, they even filter pollutants from the air. www.debralynndadd.com/debras-list/ecos-paints

 

 

TOXIC FREE TALK RADIO
Organic Paints & Varnishes

Host: Debra Lynn Dadd
Guest: Julian Crawford

Date of Broadcast: : January 16, 2014

DEBRA: Hi, I’m Debra Lynn Dadd, and this is Toxic Free Talk Radio where we talk about how to thrive in a toxic world.

There are many, many toxic chemicals out there in various consumer products, in the air we breathe, the food we drink, in our workplaces, in children’s toys, and just every place. But that doesn’t mean that we have to be exposed to them because there are many, many products that do not contain them. There are many things that we can do to remove those toxic chemicals from our body. And these are the things that we talk about on this show.

Today is Thursday, January 16th 2014. And today, we’re going to be talking about paint, safe paint. And this is zero VOC paint. This is a paint that’s been around for a long time.

My guest today is Julian Crawford. He’s the CEO of Imperial Paints which is the US distributor of Ecos Paints, the world’s number one selling organic paint and varnish. This was established in the United Kingdom. It’s been used at the Louvre.

They used it to paint the GooglePlex and Westminster Abbey.

Thank you for being with me today, Julian.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Thank you for having me, Debra.

DEBRA: Good! So first, tell me a little history about Ecos Paints, and then, what interested you in coming to work for this paint company.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Yes, certainly. I guess the start of Ecos Paint really begins when the paint was formulated. That was around 1982. A UK paint chemist, [Ian Ware], he suffered from chemical sensitivities himself and had always had issues being around the chemicals (the paints, in particular). He was getting headaches and such like.

He decided to formualte a different type of paint chemistry. He basically started with a clean sheet and added components that didn’t cause problems, that were non-toxic (all of which are non-toxic) until he made a formulation that worked the paint.

I think he spent maybe six years for that process, which ended up with Ecos Paint being available I think about 1988. And they’ve been selling Ecos Paint in the UK eversince along with other various types of products, coatings and varnishes. But that’s really where it started.

DEBRA: And Julian, I need to interrupt you for a minute. My producer is asking me to ask you to speak into the phone so that we have better audio from you.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Okay. Is that better?

DEBRA: A little bit. It’s a little louder and a little closer to the phone.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Okay. Is that better?

DEBRA: Oh, perfect. Perfect, good. Thank you.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: I apologize. I’ve been accused of being a mumbler by my mother for most of my life, so it’s amazing to be even out here. Would you like me to restate what I said or is that…?

DEBRA: Why don’t you restate what you said because it wasn’t every clear. I was sitting here listening very, very carefully.

So, let’s just start over.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Okay, I apologize.

DEBRA: It’s totally fine.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: The product itself, Ecos Paint was developed in 1982. It started around 1982 in the UK by a paint chemist, Ian Ware, who had chemical sensitivities himself. He set about devising a paint formulation, but didn’t include any of the harmful ingredients that you typically find in a paint.

So, he started a formulation with a blank sheet of paper and simply added products there that were non-toxic until he made a formulation that served its purpose of being non-toxic, and also, worked, very well functioning as a paint.

That process took about six years resulting in Ecos Paint being available from about, I think, 1988. And then, obviously, it had been sold in the UK, and actually, around the world since then.

They came to the United States in 2009. They had been selling products over here a little bit. But obviously, clearly, it’s not a simple exercise selling paints across the ocean here. They had sufficient inquiries and interest that they decided to set a small factory here in North Carolina. They began that in 2009. And we’ve been producing and selling paints here ever since.

DEBRA: It was used to paint Westminster Abbey and the Louvre.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Not the entire place for those. These are places where it had just been used when specified. And typically, it’s been usually specified in places where there’s a particular interest.

So, the Louvre, for example, they did some testing. They were particularly focused on preservation of artifacts. Clearly, there’s a whole number of very expensive and unique artifacts. They did their own proprietary tests, I believe, on our products and a number of others. And they were looking for, not only is it offgassing the paint, but also, the paint’s ability to inhibit offgassing from other types of materials, particularly wood.

Wood will actually give off sometimes this acidic chemistry. So, they used a passivating product of ours which actually not only doesn’t introduce VOC’s and contaminants. It will be able to actually reduce those that are being generated by other [substrates].

DEBRA: Interesting! Interesting, interesting.

Okay! So then, what about you? How did you get interested in things non-toxic?

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Well, my interest with Ecos Paint and then, subsequently, of the Imperial Paint started when they set up their factory here in 2009. Clearly, South Carolina doesn’t have too many English people in it. And when they located a factory here, it wasn’t difficult for us to catch up.

People said, “Oh, you’re English [inaudible 00:06:44].” I got to meet them. That’s when I met the original UK contingent. He came over here to set up the company. I have introduced them into local vendors and contacted [inaudible 00:07:01]. I’ve been here for about ten years by that date.

And then, really, for the next couple of years, we probably didn’t touch base at all. I don’t know exactly what the reason why, but we got back in contact and I learned a little bit more about what they were doing and how it was working. I then did some diligence on the product, and I fairly quickly established their product (or our product now) is superior to we think any other product on the market.

It performs better as a paint. It doesn’t have the typical issues that you have environmentally-friendly products. You often sacrifice some type of performance for that. And it had a clear history, 25 years, of very successful use.

What I felt that they were lacking was an ability to connect to a market. This is a great well-kept secret. And I think that we still are.

DEBRA: Well, I think you are too. I’ve been in this field for more than 30 years, and I only just heard about you this year. I’m constantly looking for the best toxic-free products that there both in terms of toxicity and also in terms of quality and performance.

And I agree with you about your paint. It’s just not known. People just don’t know that it exists.

I think that that’s true for a lot of non-toxic product because if people knew that they were there, they would use them!

DEBRA: Right! And that’s invariably a conversation we’ve had with new customers People, they read an article in the newspaper. They find it relatively easy to get [inaudible 00:08:51] when people noted, “Oh, look! We should really do something about that.” And there’s invariably the pride element, “Oh, gosh! If only I had known.”

But what we’ve spent the last couple of years is really trying to address that and make sure that our product articulate what it is we’re trying to do, what the value is, and what the benefits are, and then make sure that they are focused on an audience that target or interested in that type of product, like a lot of our paint product.

DEBRA: We need to go to break. And so, we’ll talk more after the break. This is Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And today, our guest is Julian Crawford. He’s the CEO of Imperial Paints. He’s the CEO of Ecos Paints, the world’s number one selling organic paint and varnish.

When we come back, we’ll talk more about paints.

= COMMERCIAL BREAK =

DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. My guest today is Julian Crawford, CEO of Imperial Paints, the US distributor of Ecos Paints. We’ve been talking about how they’ve been used to paint Westminster Abbey and the Louvre. And we’re going to be talking more about why they’re uniquely special

But first, Julian, let’s talk about why somebody would want to seek out a paint like yours. What is toxic about regular paint?

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Regular paint contains a catalog of harmful chemicals, all of which are there for a purpose. They’re there to keep a paint from drying too quickly or they enhance the color or they help the spread rate. They’re not there without purpose.

In traditional paint, they include things formaldehyde, toluene, other types of solvents, all of which are either carcinogenic or have got issues with brain function or liver function, these kinds of health issues.

The technology of paint has not changed overly dramatically outside of the major substitution of lead for the longest time. Environmentally-friendly paints which are traditional-based typically just contain fewer of those. It’s normally done by an extraction process or a substition process.

And so you find that if a particular can was considered to be highly toxic, you might try and substitute that for a less toxic product or you might limit the quantity of it. The consequence of which typically is that the performance of the product is less, so it doesn’t hide that well or it doesn’t covers that well or it takes forever to try.

If you read the reviews that most of the environmentally-friendly or allegedly environmentally-friendly traditional paint, they typically have got a poor review in terms of the application.

Our product is completely different. We didn’t start with a paint recipe and tried to modify it. The original recipe was put together with products that didn’t cause harm. They’re blended of resins and food-grade products, the type of things that you wouldn’t necessarily find in a paint.

The result of which is actually an extremely good quality paint. It’s one of the things that attracted me to this company. The performance of the product is actually superior to most traditional paints in terms of coverage and color and durability despite the fact that it’s got a tremendous environmentally problem.

DEBRA: Well, you sent me a can of it. I actually have some tubes of various samples of the different kinds of products that you have. I smelled all of them. I didn’t have the opportunity to paint them all on something. But the quality of the paint in the cans and the tubes is tremendous. I’ve done a lot of painting in my life. It’s very thick and stays on the brush kind of thing and actually puts a good coating on.

And so I do think that you have accomplished that balance of making a toxic-free product that also is just beautiful to use in terms of the result. Yeah, I would vouch for that.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: And to be perfectly honest, we get as many people buying our product because of that quality as the environmental property.

So, for example, in the UK, a customer of ours is British Rails, all the rail in the country, they use the yellow paint to paint the marketings on the railway platforms because they found it’s the most durable paint they could find. We had people who paint carpark decks, the white lines on carpet decks. And they’re not really focused on the environmental advantages of the product. They’re just purely looking for performance. So yeah, we definitely do get that kind of [inaudible 00:14:22].

And the other thing with our paint is it typically covers more. An eggshell paint that we have will cover around 560 sq. ft. a gallon. Well, the traditional paint, it’s maybe 350, maybe 400. So, you get a much better coverage. So when people look at the cost, the price of the product, if you look at it instead of a gallon for gallon comparison that we price our products that’s the same as a high quality premium paint, you actually get a better coverage.

So, if you look at cost per square foot for this product, you get a more advantageous price.

DEBRA: So just typical household use, if they’re using it to paint the yellow lines in the railway station, it would probably last longer on your walls and cabinets that normally you wouldn’t have to repaint so much.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: I mean, we do test with durability. The products, we have people who paint, what we call ‘problematic substrates’. They might be painting onto a plastic or a glass. Those are where you get to really see the adhesion of the product. And very often, they’ll come and do the test and they will use our product, paint it, let it dry and try and scratch it off. [Inaudible 00:15:43] with a traditional paint is far superior.

DEBRA: That’s excellent! I always love it when it’s a better choice.

Many years ago, I was working with a company where we were developing green products and what we found was that not only did it have to have the environmental attributes, but that if it didn’t work as well as the one that was toxic or environmentally harmful, people wouldn’t buy it. It has to have that performance.

And so, I’m always happy to see when you can actually get better perfomance by makign the toxic-free choice.

Some chemicals that are typically found in paint are things like solvents (which are very toxic), animal products, heavy metals like lead, cadmium, mercury, formaldehyde, vinyl chloride (which is carcinogenic), and phthalates (which you may have heard about.

And what happens with paint, the way a paint is put together, it has the paint parts, the solids, and then it has all these toxic things to keep it liquid. And that’s what you’re breathing, all the toxic solvents and things as the paint is drying.

We’re going to take another break and then we’re going to hear about all the details about Ecos Paints and what the different types of paints they have and why they’re so good.

You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. My guest is Julian Crawford, CEO of Imperial Paints, the US distributor of Ecos Paints, the world’s number one selling organic paint and varnish. We’ll be right back.

= COMMERCIAL BREAK =
DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. My guest today is Julian Crawford, CEO of Imperial Paints, the US distributor for Ecos Paints, the world’s number one selling organic paint and varnish.

So, let’s talk about your paints. I’m looking at a page on your website that talks about your company. And one of the first thing it says is that it’s 12,500 times purer than paints that are – it says 5 grams per liter, 0.5% of these VOCs. So, that would be a low VOC paint, 12,500 times purer than low VOC paint.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Actually, [inaudible 00:18:21] in the United States would be a zero VOC paint. In the United States, you can actually call your product, the base paint, a zero VOC so long as it contain less than 50 gram per liter.

DEBRA: So, zero VOC isn’t zero VOC?

JULIAN CRAWFORD: No, no. This is one of the issues in terms of the paint market here. If you buy a product with zero VOC, it can actually contain up to 50 grams. And if you think about that, if you paint a room with five gallons of paint, 50 grams is about 2 lbs. of VOCs. That’s in a product that’s specified as zero. So clearly, you can have a low VOC or mid or high VOC which is multiples of that.

DEBRA: So, people, if they’re choosing a paint, they need to not look at the label and see where it says “low” or “no”, they need to actually look at the amount of VOCs that are in the paint?

JULIAN CRAWFORD: That’s correct. The zero VOC or low VOC is misleading. Most people will read zero and consider that that really is none. And that’s not the case.

And the other thing with VOCs is, clearly, there’s a whole range of different products that can be VOCs, some of which are not really harmful and some of which are extremely harmful in small quantities. So, if you chew on a little bit of arsenic, it’ll kill you if you chew on whatever else that’s not going to harm you. So you have to really think about what those are as a person [inaudible 00:20:00] just the volume.

DEBRA: VOCs stands for ‘volatile organic chemicals’. But as you’ve said, there’s such a wide variety of them and they don’t necessarily have to tell you exactly what they are.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Absolutely! And most companies, they’ll consider some of these products proprietary. And if they are in certain small volumes, then you don’t have to mention them either.

Oftentimes, you’ll see a general statement which says, “This paint contains non-carcinogens and products that [inaudible 00:20:34] in animals.” That’s a fairly standard descriptoin that goes on a lot of traditional paints.

DEBRA: Okay. So you have no VOCs. You actually have no VOCs.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: That’s correct.

DEBRA: Yes. And no glycols (glycol is another big ingredient that’s used in toxic paints), no solvents and it’s odor-free.

Now, I smelled all the paint samples you sent me. I think some of them have no odor at all. I’m sniffing, sniffing, sniffing and smelling nothing. Some of them, I would say, have a little bit of an odor. But none of them particularly smelled like toxic chemicals that I’m familiar with. So that was really good for me to see.

But I’m not sure I would call it odor-free because some of them had a little bit of odor if not toxic.

And another thing that your company does is you declare all the ingredients.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Yes. And actually,w e’re giong through a process at the moment. There’s a new certification process for LEED where you self-declare all the different products. We’re just going go through a process now of identifying [inaudible 00:21:52] and whatever, so you could put those on. And those will be specifically focused on sending to architects and people specifying so that they get that degree of comparability to a different product.

DEBRA: Right! And also you say that they’re safe for people with allergies, asthma and chemical sensitivites. So, tell us what is actually on your paint?

JULIAN CRAWFORD: The paint is water and binders. We have resins. It’s a resin-based product. We’ve got pigments.

Clearly, people buy products [inaudible 00:22:33] pigmented.

That’s one of the big things in terms of the product. We buy pigments and tints from Europe, a special variety that contains no glycol.

Glycol has been shown to cause asthma and allergies. There’s a Harvard School of Public Health study that specifically links glycols from paints and other kind of household painters and the development of asthma and allergies in children.

And glycols are used extensively in paints and also in tints because they help the product stay liquid. Particularly in tint, you don’t want the pigment to dry when it’s in a tinting machine. It dries and it clogs up nozzles and therefore, you don’t get the right dosage of that particular colorant.

So, we buy a variety of tint and pigment from Europe. It caused us more problems in terms of actually application. We’ve spent more time on making sure that process works smoothly. We can do that because we tint our products only here in the factory. Other people are tinting in retail location. We’re talking about hundreds or thousands of tinting machines that need to be attended to. But our products, it’s a bit more tricky to deal with. But the benefit of which is you don’t have these glycols because the glycols are particularly problematic.

DEBRA: So, let’s talk about color for a minute. One thing I want to mention is that I know that there are some paints – as you mentioned before about the base payment, you were careful to say that base paint has a certain amount of VOCs in it.

But I also know that the tints themselvse can have VOCs. And so people have been selling paints that might have VOC in the paint, but they still have the standard tints with those glycols and VOCs in them.

So, I’m looking at your Find Your Color page. I was about to ask you, if you’re tinting at the factory, then does that mean they can’t go down to their local store and bring a piece of fabric and have a color match? But you say here on your page that you at the factory, you can color match to almost any shade, just to send the sample and you’ll do it.

I’m looking for a page that has a bunch of colors on it. I’m not seeing that, but you must have one somewhere I guess?

JULIAN CRAWFORD: I don’t have the screen in front of me. There’s a page, Choose Your Color or something at the top maybe.

DEBRA: Yeah, that’s where I’m at, Find Your Color, but I don’t see any colors. Hmmm…

But you know what? We need to go to break. So I will look for this over the break.

You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd and I’m here with Julian Crawford, CEO of Imperial Paint.

We’re talking about Ecos Paints, the world’s number one selling organic paint and varnish. We’ll be right back!

= COMMERCIAL BREAK =
DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. I’m here with Julian Crawford, CEO of Imperial Paints which is the US distributor of Ecos Paints, the word’s number one selling organic paint and varnish. You can go to his website at EcosPaints.net (not .com, .net, EcosPaints.net). And I’ve also got a link on my website at DebrasList.com. You can just go to ToxicFreeTalkRadio.com and type in Ecos Paint and you’ll get to my listing about them. You can go to the website from there, EcoPaint.net.

So Julian, I did find your colors. You just go to Shop. And when you click on Shop in the main menu, it’s got a big menu and it says “Choose by color.” And if you go to red or orange or yellow or green or blue, whichever one, you get to a whole page that has all different shades of that color.

And then they have you buy a color card for ¢75 and you get a real color (because computer screens are often not accurate in terms of color). So you can get the color card and make sure that that’s the color that you want before you order. I think that’s a really good system.

Also, if you click on Shop over on the right-hand side under All, it tells all the different types of paints.

You have so many different types of paints. Tell us what is your basic paint like. You have a lot of different ones.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Yes! We have what you might consider the standard product range for people painting houses, your normal wall paint, egg shell, matte finish. Those are the traditional wall paint products. And then we have glass products for painting onto doors and trims and furniture. So there are interior and exterior products. They’re just basically the types of products that the typical household would need.

DEBRA: So basically, anything that you would find at a paint store, you have that type of paint.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Yes. And then we have some specialist types of floor paints and some masonry paints, these kinds of products that maybe nobody else really has these environmentally-friendly products.

DEBRA: And your floor paints, what types of flooring can you paint that over? I would think that that is especially heavy duty for walking on it?

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Yes! You can paint it onto concrete and wood. We painted the floor in our factory here and ran a bulldozer truck over on it. It stands up to that.

DEBRA: Wow! So you could paint it on your garage floor, for example.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Yes! We had a customer who bought floor paint. And when we talked to him a little bit more, it was a company that trained sniffer dogs. So these are the dogs that were sniffing for drugs or whatever. They wanted to paint the floor that wouldn’t be scratched up and marked so easily by all these dogs and also didn’t have any chemicals or chemistry that would be interfering with the process of identifying different types of smells. And that’s one of the tests they did to see how well this would wear when they got dogs running out about.

DEBRA: Wow! Again, another use that is very specific where they’re looking for perfomance, and you came through with that.

So, tell us about the air purifying products because I’ve never seen paints like these.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Right! So, the air purifying products, again, share the same initial characteristics as our zero VOC, no toxic chemicals. Particularly, the air purifying paint, it has Zeolite crystals in it, specifically ceramic crystals. It has been specially or particularly [inaudible 00:30:14] and it traps VOCs that are bouncing around in the room. It traps formaldehyde and acetone. And we have some test results from [inaudible 00:30:25] 98% of the VOCs that are bouncing around.

So what happens as these VOCs bounce around the room, they eventually come into contact with the walls or the ceiling where they get stuck or trapped by the [inaudible 00:30:43] itself, things like carbondioxide and water and whatever. [Inaudible 00:30:47] back out. So, these actually remove VOCs from the air.

DEBRA: I think that’s amazing. I’ve never heard of that.

And so, let’s see, you have the Atmosphere Purifying Paint and then MDF Passivating Primer. So, that absorbs the toxic things coming out of MDF and particleboard.

So, if you wanted to use particleboard, you could put this paint on it and then it wouldn’t be emitting formaldehyde.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: That’s correct. And actually, that’s the product or one of the products that the Louvre used. They were testing to see that they wanted to trap contaminants.

Imagine you put an artifact in a glass case with normally a wooden frame around the outside, if the wood itself is giving off chemicals, you’ll find that it’ll be degrading the artifact itself. So, that was one of the products that they specified for trapping those kinds of chemicals.

DEBRA: And then you have a Deodorizing White Satin Paint that says it removes odors and VOCs from painted surfaces.

So if somebody had painted – I get this question a lot. There had been people, different brands of paint here where they’ve been advertised to be not toxic and then people paint with them and they can’t go in those rooms. It lasts for months and they have no way of remedying that.

So if you were to paint this over that kind of situation, it will block those VOCs and odors?

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Yeah. Typically, these paint is used on door frames and doors where people maybe have used an oil-based finished, typically the strongest the products in terms of odors and chemicals going out. And normally, you can’t paint the water-based type of product directly over those. The adhesion of the product is sufficient that it would actually cover those. You would simply mask those with our paints.

DEBRA: This is incredible, so many uses for these things. Then you have a certain thing called Anti-Formaldehyde Radiator Paint. It says “formaldehyde-absorbing finish for hot water radiator.” How does a hot water radiator give off formaldehyde?

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Actually, that’s more a European type of thing. It’s not really something we – it’s a product that we have really from our [inaudible 00:33:22]. Typically, it’s not a product that’s sold in the United States.

DEBRA: Okay. I just never heard of that.

And then, the last one in the series has the EMR-shielding paint. That shields radiation.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Yes, this is for people who maybe live next to a cell tower or they’re in an office environment, a doctor environment where you’ve got machines that are emitting these radiations. This is a product that contains a nickel, an inert nickel chemistry. And that blocks that type of radiation. There’s a specific range that it will block in a particular efficiency.

Very often, people use our products and then unsolicited, they’ll say, [inaudible 00:34:14]. We have people who maybe have been [00:47:04]. And they will come back and say it’s just a completely different environment that they’re living in.

DEBRA: I’m just continuing to look around your site. I looked around it before, but I’m just scrolling while we’re talking.

Under specialty paints, just so the listeners can get an idea of all the different kinds of paints that you have, here, there’s anti-slip floor paint, there’s chalkboard paint, concrete sealer, feng shui paint. Well, how does feng shui paint feng shui?

JULIAN CRAWFORD: Actually, you asked question I can’t – forgive me, I’m not a technical person. There’s a difference with it, but to be perfectly honest, I’m not the technical person for the product.

DEBRA: You’re not a feng shui expert, huh?

JULIAN CRAWFORD: No, unfortunately not. In fact, I’m not the expert at [most of this]. The chalkboard product is a very popular product. Google use that chalkboard thing. We sell that to Japan. And again, that’s the only non-toxic chalkboard paint you can find. Well, you can paint walls with it. They pay glass jars. They paint cabinets, so they can write things.

Children paint walls. They can use them to write homeworks perhaps or just notes.

DEBRA: And you can get it in any color, chalkboard in any color that you can write on. They also have flame and fire retardant paint and nursery paint. Well, tell us the baby paint because you have a particular line of your baby paints.

JULIAN CRAWFORD: The nursery paint, again, has the same characteristics with no toxic chemicals. We put a hardener in the product because, obviously, when babies become two years old or so, they start touching walls [inaudible 00:49:08].

The nursery paint is a particular product designed specifically for that environment where babies are going to be put in a room. You put them in a cart, they might sleep with the doors shut for hours and hours and hours. So, anything that’s in that room, they are much more susceptible to them than the typical adult who will be in and out (they’ll be outdoors).

The idea was that nurseries or children’s nurseries, you put your baby down, you try and be as quiet as you can. Nowadays, with modern technology, you could put a baby monitor and then shut the door. You don’t have to [inaudible 00:49:41]. So, everything in that room is basically circulating.

And babies, one, they’re predisposed to…

DEBRA: I’m sorry, I have to interrupt you. We’re getting to the end of our time here and we have about four seconds left.

So, go to ToxicFreeTalkRadio.com and you can find out how to get to Ecos Paints’ website. You can listen to the show again (lots of great information). You can tell your friends about it. They can listen to the archives.

We’ll be back tomorrow! I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. This is Toxic Free Talk Radio.