My guest Lawrence J. Gust from Gust Environmental is an electrical engineer and a certified Bau-biologist. He worked for 25 years in middle management of two Fortune 500 companies. Thirteen years ago building caused health issues within his own family forced him to become knowledgeable sick buildings and how to fix them. This knowledge led to a second career as a Bau-biologist. We’ll talk about various indoor air quality problems your home might have, and what you can do to create a healthier home environment. www.gustenviro.com
Links mentioned on the show:
My Bau-biologie Home Inspection
Bau-Biologie: Humidity, Moisture, and Mold
Bau-Biologie: Mold Inspection and Remediation
Bau-Biologie: How I Reduced House Dust in My Home
Find a Bau-biologie Home Inspector
TOXIC FREE TALK RADIO
How Bau Biology Can Help Your Sick Home
Host: Debra Lynn Dadd
Guest: Lawrence Gust
Date of Broadcast: June 10, 2013
DEBRA: Hi, I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And you’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio where we talk about how to thrive in a toxic world. And there are toxic chemicals all around us. It is a toxic world. But we can make our homes safe. We can remove toxic chemicals from our bodies. We can be healthy and happy and not be affected by the toxic chemicals around us.
Today, we’re going to have a guest talking about indoor air quality. And he is quite knowledgeable on the subject. And so we are going to be talking about the toxic chemicals and other harmful things that you might be breathing or exposing your body to through the air.
But before we do that, I just want to read a quote from a very wise person back in Greek times named Herophilus. And he said:
“When health is absent, wisdom cannot reveal itself, art cannot become manifest, strength cannot be exerted, wealth is useless, and reason is powerless.”
So, it really does all come back down to health. And the more that we can do to have good health, take care of our bodies, and then everything else stems from that. I know that when my body is not feeling well, it kind of stops me from doing everything else in my life.
And toxic chemicals can make you do that. And that’s one of the reasons why I do this show, is so that you can be healthy, happy, have great relationships, be productive, do whatever it is that you want to do without being hampered by toxic chemicals and their effects.
My guest today is Larry Gust. He’s a—
Oh, before we do this, I want to tell you one more thing.
First of all, you may have noticed that this show is now at noon Eastern time instead of 3:00 Eastern time. So it’s noon, Eastern.
And the other thing is I want to tell you about a new feature that I have on my website. if you go to Toxic Free Talk Radio, there’s a link to a new blog I just created over the weekend where it has all the archived shows. And you can go to get more information about the different businesses, the different guests that I’ve interviewed. You can leave a comment. You can ask a question. And there’ll be just more information about each of the topics. I’m really excited about this because, now, each one of these shows will become its own page. It’ll be able to be searched on search engines as its own individual page. And the guest will be able to, themselves, add whatever information they want to add by leaving comments about the show. And you can leave comments to. So, let’s get lots of interesting dialogue and conversation going about these topics.
So, you can go to ToxicFreeTalkRadio.com. And then, there are two places where the link is. The first one is right under where it says “visit archived shows blog and learn more.” There’s a link that says “visit my Toxic Free Talk Radio archives shows blog.” Just click on that, and it’ll take you to a blog where all the past shows where you can listen to the archived version and also leave any comments or questions that you want. I’m very excited. I hope you’ll go visit my blog, ToxicFreeTalkRadio.com.
Okay, Larry, I am now to you. So I hope you’re standing by. I know you are.
LAWRENCE GUST: Good morning! I am.
DEBRA: Good morning. Yeah, let me just tell our listeners a little bit about you. My guest, Larry Gust from Gust Environmental is an electrical engineer and certified bau biologist. He worked for 25 years in middle management of two Fortune 500 companies. But then health issues within his own family forced him to find out about sick buildings and what to do to fix them.
So Larry, tell us more about your story. How did you go from Fortune 500 middle management to being an expert in indoor air quality.
LAWRENCE GUST: Well, Debra, good morning. This was back in the mid-1980s. My wife who was a real estate agent babysat a new home for two weeks. It had just been completed in construction. And she began sicker and sicker. Eventually, she was no longer able to work. She was home all the time. And initially, the medical establishment didn’t know what to do with her.
In summary, she was really allergic to the 21st century. Everything that connected with modern products set her off. And it was the quest to find a solution for her medical problem that took me from being an engineer in a major corporation to discovering building biology which is a study program particularly that comes from Europe and grew out from the post-war building boom in Germany when people were noticing that these buildings were making people sick and they wondered why. And so an entire course of study grew up around this idea of buildings, they can either be health-supporting or they can be something that will compromise or fail to support or even tear down your health depending on the extent of the problem.
And so, this whole course of study grew out of this whole area of study. It was called Bau-Biology in Germany. Building Biology is the English translation for that. And they discovered about the kinds of materials and conditions that ought to be on the inside of the house that would help support human health.
And so, I learned about these things. And lo, and behold, I had discovered that the plywood in my home was defective. It was breaking down rapidly and releasing formaldehyde into the environment. And formaldehyde is a potent allergy sensitizer as well as it causes cancer.
And I also discovered that the air-cleaning system I put in to help my wife’s breathing—we lived in the middle of the woods at that time. There’s lots of pollens and so forth—that was generating large electromagnetic fields. And she was spending the better part of every day in that unbeknownst to me. Being an electrical engineer, that was sort of like, “Okay,” right? I mean, that’s what we did.
I discovered these things. And all of a sudden, my home didn’t seem as safe and as health-affirming as I thought it was. And I cured these things by doing some things with the flooring and removing this air filtration device into a whole lot of efforts that we put into this. My wife finally recovered, but it took three years and a lot of money.
And that’s what took me into this business, Debra, trying to apply what I learn to help other people to avoid this sort of thing.
DEBRA: I completely understand because my story is very similar. As you may know, I became chemically sensitive in the same way. And I regained my health by identifying a different set of toxic chemicals than you did. But I found the ones that were affecting me. and then, my recovery was so dramatic that I thought, “Wait a minute! People don’t need to be sick in the first place from this. They just need to know that toxic chemicals can make you sick and that if they take those steps to remove the toxic chemicals, this whole illness can be avoided.
LAWRENCE GUST: Exactly!
DEBRA: There’s just no reason why, in this day and age, with what you and I know (and many others that I have as guests on my show), what we know really makes it entirely unnecessary to have any illness from toxic chemical exposure.
So, tell us just a little more about Bau Biology. I know that it has to do with building health and what ca make you sick and how you can be well. We’re almost coming up on the break, but give us a couple of sentences, and then we’ll talk about it more after the break when we come back.
LAWRENCE GUST: Surely! Well, this is the relationship between the built environment and human health. And when it gets into the details, you’re looking at the kinds of materials you’re putting into your building. Are they natural or unnatural? Are they emitting pollutants or are they not? Are they able to control water and so forth?
DEBRA: And we’ll hear more about this after the break. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. This is Toxic Free Talk Radio. And I’m talking with Larry Gust from Gust Environmental about indoor air quality, Bau Biology and how your house can make you sick or support your health. We’ll be right back.
DEBRA: I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. And my guest today is Larry Gust from Gust Environmental. We’re talking about Bau Biology, sick homes, indoor air quality. And Larry, I know that Bau Biology is much more than looking at just the materials. I have never taken the course. I know a lot of people who have taken the course. And I was friends with Helmut Ziehe—Helmut Ziehe being the architect who brought Bau Biology from Germany to America and started the whole movement in America.
And I had the honor of actually having my house have a Bau Biology inspection by a graduating class of Bau biologists living here in Clearwater where, until recently, most Bau biologists get trained.
And when they came in, I’m not going to tell about the inspection. I’m going to let you do that. But I do want to mention that I wrote up my whole experience of having a Bau Biology home inspection. It’s on my website. And I’ll put a link to that after the show if anyone wants to go to the blog that I mentioned earlier. You can go to ToxicFreeTalkRadio.com, click on the blog, look for the show. I’ll put a link there, so that you can see the description of the complete Bau Biology inspection that I had.
So, Larry, tell us more about the different things that you look for. Or perhaps maybe you should start with how you were trained and all the different areas that you got trained in that all have collectively do with the health of the home.
LAWRENCE GUST: Well, the curriculum for building biology is put into three pieces, Debra: the first being indoor air quality.
And those are questions about not only what you bring into the house, but what you build the house out of, but also how to take care of the air in the house. Are you sitting in a soup without exterior or outside air coming in, or do you have some sort of means for bringing outside air. Most homes do not have that other than opening the windows and the doors. And of course, that’s not feasible some periods during the year. So indoor air quality is one of the things that we look at.
We also look at the issue of electromagnetic fields that are possibly being created by wiring errors, the type of wiring we have in houses. And then, more recently, in the last 20 years was the advent of wireless communication. There’s an issue now with external radiation coming from our variety of systems like cellphone, networks, smart meter networks, and then what people bring into their own home in the way of cellphone, wireless, Internet connection, cordless telephone, so on and so forth.
So then there is the aspect of what you are actually using in your home. What are you cleaning with? What kind of cleaning products do you use? Are they toxic? Do they say on the label “only use with the windows and door open or a well-ventilated room”? Or are they something that you can feel more comfortable using, that they’re not going to pollute your body and cause possible harm?
So, the inspection deals with indoor air quality chemicals, electromagnetic radiation. And the average house takes two to three hours to take a look at.
DEBRA: Good! Let’s see… how is this inspection different from the normal building inspection that people have done when they buy a home? And do you do inspections on homes—like if somebody was buying a house, would you go in addition to that home inspector and tell people what’s going on in the house before they buy it?
LAWRENCE GUST: I do! And I frequently get calls to do that. The typical home inspection is really a mechanical and structural inspection. We want to find out whether the building is in good shape structurally, are there termites, were things built according to code, or were they built in some other fashion that could be dangerous or will reduce the life of the building, does the heating system work, does the plumbing look good, is the water pressure great in the bathroom. That’s the sort of thing that a typical home inspector will look at.
Now, in the last few years, they’ve become more aware of mold. If they see something that looks like it could be an indication of mold growth in the home, they’ll tell the homeowner about that. But they’re really not trained to delve into that. The homeowner would have to get somebody like me who would do an environmental inspection, looking at the types of materials, the chemicals, the mold issues, make recommendations to the house […] So that’s the difference between those two things, those two skills.
DEBRA: How much experience does a building biologist have in inspecting homes and offices?
LAWRENCE GUST: Well, everybody has to start at the beginning. The training curriculum for building biology involves a fairly extensive home study course (which is now online) as well as a series of seminars. There are three of them. And each one of those seminars is a week long. So people are spending 40 hours learning about this. It’s split between learning about the material and labs where people take equipment as available and they do inspections.
Each of the seminars culminated with the inspection of a home where they actually get to try these things out, and then it’s also for their own home inspection project where they go back and they apply all of these things they’ve learned to a home and create a report that is sent to a mentor who looks it over and actually grades it.
Every one of these seminars is followed by an exam at the end to check if people have absorbed the material.
I mentioned to you that the third seminar is one on natural, healthy building. And this is where we learn all the different ways we can build differently that will result in a healthier home. Now that’s not only the kinds of materials that we use, Debra, but it’s actually about the kinds of wall structures we have and do they let oxygen and water move through them without trapping them in the house. And that’s the sort of [cross-talking 17:18].
DEBRA: I want us to talk more about that wall structure because it’s one of the differences between Bau Biology and just looking at the materials itself. And so let’s talk about that more after the break.
I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. This is Toxic Free Talk Radio.
DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And I have one more commercial for you.
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This marvelous cookware is called Xtrema. You can buy their skillets, woks, bake ware, sauce pans, and sauce pods at Xtrema.com. Use coupon code DEBRA10 to save 10%. That’s X-T-R-E-M-A dot-com. It begins with an X. X-T-R-E-M-A dot-com. That’s Xtrema.com.
And right now, one of the advantages of having a home office is that I get to cook all day long. And right now, my house smells wonderful because I’m making chicken stock from actual chicken bones. And it’s going to taste delicious—vegetables, chicken bones, hmmm… hmmm… hmmm…
Well, Larry, if you were here, I would invite you to lunch.
LAWRENCE GUST: Well, thank you very much. I’ll make a quick trip to Florida.
DEBRA: I’m just so excited about my chicken soup. It smells so good.
So, tell us about walls breathing. That’s what we were talking about, walls breathing.
LAWRENCE GUST: Well, one of the […] problems in western building technique (which is to make a wall out of 2 x 4 studs, and then put dry wall on the inside, and some sort of an outside finish like clapboard or stucco or brick or something like this) is that environments have humidity in them either outside if you’re in the south or inside in the winter if you’re in the north where there’s lots of living activities generating water.
And this material with the water, actually, in our structure, it has to be prevented from getting into the walls because, as it moves through the wall, which wasn’t designed to do that, it’s eventually getting to a surface that’s cold.
In the winter time, the outdoor surfaces are cold, the water condenses in that particular space. Usually, the sheathing on the outside of the house, the stuff that’s on the outside of these studs, it condenses. And that condensation begins to cause mold growth and can have great damage to the structure. And we’ve spent a lot of effort to try and figure out how to stop the water from getting into the walls.
And the flipside to that is to build a structure that allows the water to actually enter the walls, go through the walls and exit to the outside without causing a problem.
DEBRA: And what would a wall like that look like?
LAWRENCE GUST: Well, it could be there’s a lot of straw clay in […] construction where they have a wall cavity that’s usually thicker than maybe 8 inches or 10 inches. And they make sure a strong clay is put into that cavity, and it becomes your wall. It has the ability to take on and give up moisture and to pass it through to the outside and release it as long as you don’t put any kinds of vapor barriers…
DEBRA: Vapor barriers, yes.
LAWRENCE GUST: …which are used heavily in our current construction techniques. This is a house which is much easier to control the temperature because the wall has mass to it and it can take on and store heat or it can take on and store cold, and then re-transit that to the inside of the house in different parts of the day/night cycle. T
These are construction techniques that have been used for thousands of years. If we go to Europe and we look at the Black
Forest, we can find houses. And I’ve been in them! I’ve visited them. They’re over 300 years old. And they were built with this technique, and they’re still standing and they’re still functioning quite well.
DEBRA: But this is not something—I just want to make sure the listeners understand this. This is not something that you can retrofit to a modern home.
LAWRENCE GUST: No.
DEBRA: You need to decide you’re going to have this kind of house and build it from the ground up.
LAWRENCE GUST: You do, Debra.
DEBRA: You can’t just go to a contractor and say, “Oh, put some straw bales in my walls.”
LAWRENCE GUST: Right! And there’s also issues with our building codes. Building codes prescribe pretty narrowly what can be built. And normally, you have quite a job to educate the building departments about new types of structures. And this has been done in some areas. We have architects in this country that build these kinds of dwellings and they’ve been doing it for probably 20 years now. They’ve done the missionary work in some areas to get the building codes change to accept this sort of structure.
DEBRA: This just brings up one of my pet things that I like to say a lot. And that is that our building codes, and indeed our city ordinances and a lot of our government regulations, are not oriented towards healthy and sustainable practices. I think that we need to be looking at the regulatory structure as well as what our personal choices are because there are so many things that we could be doing, and then we find that there’s a regulation that says we can’t. Like I had chickens in my backyard and the police came and took them away. I’d love to build a straw bale house, but I’m sure they won’t let me in Clearwater, Florida.
So, we need to be working on the individual level as well as on the regulatory level so that our government structures are actually supportive of sustainable practices instead of hindering them.
As long as we’re talking about walls, there’s something else going in our worlds that are affecting us—and that’s the wiring.
Can you tell us about that?
LAWRENCE GUST: I’d be happy to. Besides indoor quality, I’d say 20 or 30 years ago, the wiring was the single biggest issue that I found going into people’s homes. It was an issue for two reasons. If you take a short course in electricity, what’s the installation of wiring which is in the house to take electricity to the point at which you need to use it? You have two things. You have a voltage on the wire which pushes the electricity through the wire. And you have a current which is electrons that are moving in the wire and going through the appliance and the light bulb to make it work.
Those two phenomenon, the flowing or movement of electrons called current and the voltage or the force that’s pushing these electrons to the wire, you get two phenomenon, you get something called electric field which is an energy that exists in the space around the wiring. You can’t feel it, see it, smell it, touch it. And you get a magnetic field which are also another type of energy that is in space surrounding the wires.
Research over the years have shown that these magnetic fields are injurious to health and they also prevent healing. So we need to pay attention to doing something about that, Debra, especially in a sleeping area.
DEBRA: We’ll talk more about that after the break. And yes, I agree with that. I used to think that if you didn’t—it’s kind of funny because I tell people who are not reacting to toxic chemicals they need to handle them anyway. And I wasn’t paying attention to electromagnetic fields because they don’t apparently bother me until I learned from another guest that exposure to an electromagnetic fields can make your exposure to toxic chemicals worse.
But we’re going to go to the break. You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And we’ll be right back.
DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And I’m here with Larry Gust from Gust Environmental. And he’s an electrical engineer and certified Bau biologist. He helps people make healthier homes.
And we were talking about the electromagnetic fields coming from the wiring in your walls. Larry, what kind of symptoms do people have as a result of the problems with wiring in their walls?
LAWRENCE GUST: Debra, I know that most people do not have symptoms from these things. People who are described as being electrically sensitive—and I don’t know that because maybe that’s 18% of the population. I’m just guessing at that, something like 10% to 20%, something like that range—they can have all kinds of different physical effects from being exposed to these sorts of things—headaches and so on and so forth.
However, for most folks, the thing that they’re going to notice the most if they’re observant is how they sleep because the electric fields I was speaking about before the break which are given off by wires because they have a voltage on them, pushing electricity through or waiting to push electricity through the wires, those electric fields are not received gladly by the body. They cause poor sleeping patterns in people (although people may not know that). They may chalk it up to something they ate or stress or tension in the workplace and so on and so forth. But you’ll find that it keeps you from sleeping deeply. You wake up quickly. It causes you to have frequent trips to the john during the evening, during the night. And you can have muscle cramping, heart palpitations caused by these fields.
And the most important thing that a person can do is to create a sleeping room which is very, very low in stress—toxic-free as you would say.
DEBRA: Yes.
LAWRENCE GUST: It should be free of chemicals, free of mold, free of dust, synthetic materials, And it should be free of electric and magnetic fields. And the way you would have to go about doing that is they would shut the power off to their sleeping area at night, something that I do every night. And when I shut that off, these electric fields disappear, and then you’re able to rest and heal much more effectively than you would before.
DEBRA: Yes! And nighttime, when you’re sleeping, is when your body restores itself and repairs itself and detoxes.
And so, I actually did sleep in a room once where—I haven’t made any of these electromagnetic changes on my house. The thing that I’ve done is I got rid of my cordless phone which when the Bau Biology inspection was done, they identified two things—the cordless phone and the electrical backup generator which was sitting under my desk, and I was sitting right on top of every day as I worked.
So, those two things went! But I’m far away from my refrigerator and things like that.
But I did sleep in the home of a bau biologist who had handled all these things in her house. And I could see the difference. I could actually feel the difference. As you said, most people don’t notice because we’re so accustomed to our electromagnetic environments and our toxic environments. It’s like you don’t know how good it feels until you stop hitting your head with a hammer.
LAWRENCE GUST: Yes.
DEBRA: You won’t even know that there’s a problem until you stop doing it. And I say that over and over about toxic chemicals, but the same applies to electromagnetic fields when I went and I slept in that room and there were no electromagnetic fields. I slept differently. A
And so, what I’m really interested in is would you explain to us what we need to do to be able to turn off the power. Do you just set your breakers differently or something?
LAWRENCE GUST: Well, before you go to bed, and you’re ready to go to sleep, you got to turn off certain breakers that are affecting the areas around the sleeping room. The easiest thing to do is you’d turn off the circuits that shut down the lights that are in the bedroom, for the plugs that are around the bed—anything that would be on the other side of the wall from you or another part of the house or would be under the floor if you have things that are actually below you, if you’re on the second floor.
You’d turn those off. There’s equipment. You can get to measure these things. But you could just do these things I’m telling you right now and see how you feel when you’re sleeping—do you fall asleep more rapidly, do you sleep better and so on and so forth.
DEBRA: So, I need to find out which breakers are the ones—my bedroom lights and things.
LAWRENCE GUST: That’s right. And so you’ve got the lamps plugged in and all these things. You have a second person helping you. Somebody is at the circuit breaker box. And you just keep turning things on and off until the lamps go out.
I use little color stickers. I put a little color sticker next to that circuit breaker so you know you can turn that off at night.
There’s other control systems you can buy later on if you find this. It’s really terrific. If you don’t want to go outside to do this, down in the basement, depending on where your circuit breakers are, you can have an automated system put in. But you don’t have to have it. And you can make big changes in your sleeping environment just by doing this.
DEBRA: That seems like a really simple thing that everybody listening could do.
LAWRENCE GUST: Yeah, absolutely.
DEBRA: I mean it depends on where their breakers are. My breakers happen to be in the house. So I don’t have to go climb under the house to turn them on and off. But that’s certainly something that I could try. And I think that it’s worth finding out where your breakers are and where things are connected to which breakers so that you can turn them on and off and reduce your exposure.
I want to make sure that we talk about cellphones. And I do want to mention, I want to give your website. It’s GustEnviro.com.
You have a lot of really helpful and interesting articles that are easy to read and understand on your website about all these opics that we’ve been talking about today.
LAWRENCE GUST: And speaking of cellphones, Debra, there is a new page I put up on the latest development by Pong.
DEBRA: I was just going to ask you about that. I am on that very page because I’m familiar with that product. I have a Pong case on my cellphone and on my iPad. And in fact, I’m arranging to have somebody from Pong come be a guest on the show.
LAWRENCE GUST: Yes, yeah.
DEBRA: And so I was very pleased to see that you recommend it. So tell us more about Pong and why you think people should have a Pong case.
LAWRENCE GUST: Well, the good thing about Pong is it actually went to an independent laboratory that tests cellphones—a very expensive testing regime. And they proved that their case reduces the radiation out the front of the phone to a third of the regular level without reducing the signal that’s coming from the phone and going to the cellphone tower. And that’s a true breakthrough.
As I say in my write-up on my website, that’s not sufficient. We really do not know what power level causes brain difficulties on cellphones. So I’m not advocating you buy a Pong case and talk forever on your cellphone. I still think that you need to be cautious about this whole thing.
Texting is far better than talking on the cellphone because texting doesn’t put that energy near your head and the energy that’s coming out is only momentary compared to all the time when you’re talking on your cellphone.
And you saw there were some other products I’m…
DEBRA: I do! There’s some other interesting products here that I am not familiar with.
LAWRENCE GUST: Yeah. People should look at that because it’s too complicated to describe that in the time we have left.
DEBRA: Right!
LAWRENCE GUST: But the efficacy of the other product that I was referring to in my website—and I’m not selling these. You just go wherever I’m telling you, and you get it from the people who are producing it. I’m just doing this because I’d like people to be healthier. That would be also a benefit to people.
DEBRA: I’d like to add about the cellphones that just simple things, once you start becoming aware—like when I decided that I was going to pay attention to this cellphone thing, one of the reason was because I had a friend who’s like a super sales kind of person, and he had been on his cellphone incessantly. I would say he had it wired to his ear. And he got a brain tumor! He really did get a brain tumor. And I thought, “You know what? I need to take this seriously,” and I got a Pong case.
But also, I now do not ever put my cellphone to my ear. I just use the speaker phone and I hold it about two feet away.
LAWRENCE GUST: Yes, that’s very effective.
DEBRA: And I also use my—a lot of people have stopped using their landline corded phones. And the only time I use my cellphone is when I’m away from home and I need to use it on some emergency basis.
LAWRENCE GUST: I couldn’t agree with you more. Stay with your landlines. It’s the safest thing to do.
And there are two other things before we have to finish the interview, Debra. People need to get rid of wireless devices from their house. No WiFi!
DEBRA: I agree. I have no WiFi in my house.
LAWRENCE GUST: And no cordless telephones. Those are just so injurious to people. We don’t even have the time to talk about the research behind what I’m saying here. But just take it from me. Those are no good for you and your family. Find a way to do without them.
DEBRA: I totally agree. So, is there anything else you’d like to quickly say in the last 20 seconds?
LAWRENCE GUST: I think we’ve really done a really good job of covering the important aspects of this. Clean up your bedroom and the bedroom for your children. Bedrooms are sleeping areas. They’re not entertainment centers. They’re not playrooms. They should be set up for sleeping.
There’s information about bedrooms on my website if you would like to look at that and find out more details about what you can do.
DEBRA: And again, his website is GustEnviro.com. But you can go to ToxicFreeTalkRadio.com and his link is there. You can go visit the blog of the past guests, find out all about the show and more information. And I will post the link to My Bau Biology Inspection: How You Can Find an Environmental Bau Biology Inspector and how you can get a Pong case for your cellphone.
I’ll post that all on his blog page about this particular show!
Thanks for joining me on Toxic Free Talk Radio. If you enjoyed the show, please tell your friends!
