My guest is Larry Redalia–artist, woodworker, builder, tree man, gardner, and all-around handyman. Larry has been remodeling with me without toxic building products for more than 25 years. We’ll be talking about our remodeling projects, including kichen and bathroom, and specifically about our experience with paints, laying tile, and laying hardwood flooring. Learn from our experience and successes.

 

 

TOXIC FREE TALK RADIO
25 Years of Toxic Remodeling

Host: Debra Lynn Dadd
Guest: Larry Redalia

Date of Broadcast: May 06, 2013

DEBRA: Hi, I’m Debra Lynn Dadd, and this is Toxic Free Talk Radio, where we talk about how to thrive in a toxic world, even though there are toxic chemicals all around, and we may not be able to do anything about those, but there’s a lot we can do about the toxic chemicals in our home, workspaces and our bodies, so that we can be healthy instead of sick.

Today is Monday—what is it today? It’s Monday, May 6th. That’s right! Yesterday was Cinco de Mayo. And it’s 2013. Okay, let’s get the date. May 6, 2013. And I’m here in Clearwater, Florida.

Today we’re going to be talking about 25 years of toxic-free remodeling. My guest is Larry Redalia, who’s an artist, a woodworker, builder, tree man, gardener, and all around handyman. And he’s been doing all my toxic-free remodeling with me for 25 years.

Before I bring him on the phone, I just want to give you my thought for today having to do with having someone to help you when you’re wanting to do something different.

I know that Larry has been by my side. I’ll just tell you something here. Larry and I have been married twice and divorced twice, but we’re still the best of friends. And we’re not even going to go into marriage or any of that stuff. What we’re going to talk about is helping each other through life and having someone there by your side who’s in agreement with what’s going on with you.

I’ve been fortunate to have that regardless of what might be going on in our relationship otherwise. Larry has been extremely steadfast in our commitment to living toxic-free for 25 years.

And prior to that, I had my father being very much a support in that as well.

It makes it so much easier. I can’t tell you how many times I get calls from people, particularly women saying, “Well, I want to take the toxic chemicals out of my house, but my husband won’t let me,” or, “My husband is not in agreement,” or, “My family thinks that I’m crazy.”

And I just want people to know that throughout my life, one of the things that has been the most important to me is to be myself, be honestly myself.

When Larry met me, I was living in a non-toxic way. And prior to that, I dated other men. I was living in a non-toxic way, and I always said, “Well, if you’re interested in a relationship with me, you need to live the way I live. And that’s just it. I’m not going to live toxic to be with you.”

And with that viewpoint, the men that really belonged in my life stayed in my life. And they were willing to live the way I want.

And Larry just made it so possible in so many ways for me to have the non-toxic environment that I have.

He’s remodeled, he’s built things, he’s figured out solutions to toxic problems with me.

And so I just want to acknowledge that and let you know that as my guest here today, he’s extremely knowledgeable and well-trained by me.

So Larry, are you there on the phone?

LARRY REDALIA: Yes, I’m here. Hi.

DEBRA: Good! Hi. So we’ve been remodeling together for more than 25 years. And later on in the show, we’re going to be talking about our kitchen remodel, our bathroom remodel, and specifically about our experience with paint, laying tile and laying hardwood floor.

But first, Larry, why don’t you tell me how you became interested in toxic chemicals, and how you like living in a non-toxic way?

LARRY REDALIA: Actually, my interest in toxic chemical dates back to when I was in high school, and I was on the debate team. We were debating the pros and cons of smoking, of all things. And I did some research on this and found that smoking was very, very bad, and quite toxic. And our family, soon after thatm moved to Los Angeles, which was the equivalent of smoking two packs of cigarettes a day for everyone there.

So that sparked my interest in this subject actually.

DEBRA: Yes, I guess, living in Los Angeles.

So then, you met me. And what happened?

LARRY REDALIA: That’s right. Well, my then girlfriend at the time, actually, took me to see a lecture by you. And I was very, very impressed with your knowledge and expertise in this area. And I thought, “Wow, what a good idea, to live less toxically.”

It didn’t occur to me that this would be possible other than stopping smoking and maybe leaving Los Angeles. You presented the information in such a way that I was like, “Wow, anyone can do this. This is great.”

And it very much impressed me. And I thought this is a good thing. This woman could use some help. I could help this woman live a less toxic life. And I thought that would be a fine thing to do.

It would be good for everyone else too for that matter.

DEBRA: And so you did. What’s it like for you to living non-toxic?

LARRY REDALIA: Well, I like it, actually. I like it a lot. I don’t have to wrinkle my nose when I walk past a laundry room or something because of the drier sheets and the toxic laundry stuff. We just used soap and there’s no awful smell about it at all.

I like actually living without toxics. During the time I was a small child, I had a carpet dust allergy, which I finally traced down when I was about 13. And I don’t miss the carpet at all. I think it’s a fine idea to live without carpet all over the house.

DEBRA: Me too.

LARRY REDALIA: They hide stuff.

DEBRA: What would you say to some husbands who are reluctant to make changes in the home to make it less toxic?

LARRY REDALIA: I would ask them, if you saw a two-year-old playing with a bottle of insecticide, would you take it out […]?

I would!

DEBRA: Good point.

LARRY REDALIA: Yes. Or if you saw anyone playing with an insecticide or putting it in drinking glasses or something, you go, “Hey, this is not the right thing to do, folks. Come on!”

DEBRA: That’s right. Have you noticed any improvement in your own health?

LARRY REDALIA: Yes, I have. Actually, I used to get colds and flu probably four times a year, four or five times a year. And it would last for a couple of weeks. And this was devastating to my work and school and stuff. And I rarely get colds now. I maybe get once every year or two, get a cold, or something like that. And they go away quicker too.

So yes, I’ve noticed a big improvement in my health.

DEBRA: I have too, 25 years of […]

Before we go to the first commercial break, I just would like you to tell your story about taking Pure Body Liquid Zeolite because I’m advertising that a lot and recommending that a lot.

You had quite a dramatic result from taking it, so would you tell us about that?

LARRY REDALIA: Through my previous work, I was exposed to fair amount of toxic chemicals, during remodeling and stuff in a toxic way, and using gasoline and stuff. So I got exposed to toxins more than most people probably.

I think on the third day of taking the zeolite, I was thinking, “This is nothing. It doesn’t taste like anything. It doesn’t seem to be doing anything.”

After about the third day, I was like, “Oh, I get it. I feel better. I have more energy. I sleep less.” I was working 8, 10, 12-hour days, and out in the Florida sun, working outside.

This is not something I would even consider was possible. And I was doing it day after day after day, often seven days a week. And I was like, “Wow, this is a really great product.” I love it.

DEBRA: It made a huge difference, didn’t it?

LARRY REDALIA: It sure did.

DEBRA: I was watching all this, and it was just like, night and day, to see the difference in his energy level, and just his cheerfulness. Not that he was depressed or unhappy before, but I could just see a whole new man emerging because his body wasn’t being suppressed by the toxic chemicals that had been accumulated.

We’re going to take a commercial break here, and we’ll be back in a minute.

= COMMERCIAL BREAK =

DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd, and I have one more commercial for you.

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Larry, let’s talk about our bathroom remodel. What happened was that we had a leak in a pipe behind the wall. And so we didn’t even know it until the tiles started falling off from around the bath tub. And there was tremendous amount of damage when the mold inspector came. We had to remove everything from the bathroom, down to the studs.

And then they had to do a big mold remediation, and we decided that we were going to make the bathroom water-tight, not only non-toxic, but also water-tight.

Larry, do you want to talk a little more about this, about what was the strategy behind our bathroom?

LARRY REDALIA: Yes, we decided we didn’t like the mold, so we had them take out all the molds, and we had them take out the flooring, and we had them take out the walls, anything that was damaged. We took out everything—the bathtub. We had to take everything out.

We basically started it again from the studs which were treated with the stuff that killed molds and […] So we had this nice, empty slate to work with.

DEBRA: I just like to interject that I’ve forgotten the name of the products that we used. Anybody who wants to know it, just send me an e-mail, and I’ll look it up for you. But the product that killed the mold, which needed to be applied by, according to the mold inspector, was a water-based coating, like a water-based paint that had silver in it, as the active mold killer.

So it didn’t have anything that was toxic that would release into the air. It was just silver that was toxic to the mold, but not harmful for us to breathe because it was encapsulated in the paint.;

So go on.

LARRY REDALIA: That was interesting to see them doing that, just that process was interesting. I’ve never heard of that particular product before. And that was a fine way to kill the mold.

DEBRA: Me too.

LARRY REDALIA: Then we put down the plywood, and sealed that. We put down [HardieBacker] board, I believe it was, all over the walls. We put it all the way up to the ceiling actually, the HardieBacker board. And then we put ceramic tiles all over the whole room, up to about seven-feet. I think it was a nine-foot ceiling. So we put them up to about seven-feet, white subway tiles, with some decorative ones, of course.

And then we built a large shower enclosure ourselves using tile, with a PVC liner. I think it was the only thing we used that was actually non-toxic. But it’s under the tile, so it’s not—

DEBRA: It’s under the tile. So the points of all of this was to make an absolutely water-tight space.

LARRY REDALIA: Yes. We didn’t want the water getting under there, creating more mold problems.

DEBRA: And it turned out that typically, bathrooms are built in a pretty cheap way, and after some number of years, 10 years or something, then you’ve got all these leaks and water under the edge of tiles, and around the edge of pipes and things. And then you start getting mold growing in your walls.

We did not want that to happen.

So Larry researched it, and took very careful precautions to make sure that our bathroom was water-tight.

So first we have this tile on the floor, ceramic tile on the floor. And then there’s ceramic tile up the walls. And where they meet, we have marble baseboards down there at the bottom.

And there are no edges where you have a wall. The tile goes all the way around the room continuously for seven-feet up.

And we even have ceramic crown moldings up the top of the tile. And then our shower space is one corner of that.

So it’s continuous tile all the way around.

So go ahead and tell them more, Larry.

LARRY REDALIA: Well, just the shower enclosure, and the step up, here in Florida, they use marble window sill material.

You can buy it in five or six-foot length, just about six-inches wide. And we just saw no reason not to use that for our sills that we step over this marble thing, and all the baseboards were marble. And of course, I had to learn how to cut marble, cut it with a table saw—a tile saw, I mean—and even double the edges of the [sillly] thing. It looks really nice.

I think the bathroom wound up in a magazine actually.

DEBRA: It did, it did, a couple of magazines.

LARRY REDALIA: So that was a fun project. And we have glass shower doors, so we don’t have the problem of the mold growing on the shower curtains, or having PVC shower curtains. We don’t have that. We just had glass doors. And that works very well. I’m quite happy with it.

DEBRA: Me too. And we have a skylight right over the shower.

LARRY REDALIA: We wanted to have a more natural light in the room, so we put a large skylight over the entire shower area. And that way, if there was a leak in the skylight, it’s right over the shower area, which was all sealed, so that’s not a problem.

DEBRA: Do you want to say anything about laying the tile?

LARRY REDALIA: I basically just used standard tile-laying stuff. I didn’t use mastic. I used […] and grout without a lot of toxic chemicals added into it. And it work very well. I mean, I was in Europe a few years back and saw some of the tile work the Romans did. And 2000 years later, it still looked good. I was like, “Okay, that’s a good way to go.”

DEBRA: The most toxic thing about tile is the grout sealer, and we used one that was totally non-toxic by a company called AFM.

We’re here with another commercial break, so we’ll be right back and talk more about our remodeling projects.

= COMMERCIAL BREAK =

DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd, and today, I’m here with my guest, Larry Redalia, artist, woodworker, builder, tree man, gardener, all around handyman, and the man who’s been doing all my toxic-free remodeling for the past 25 years.

We’re talking about our remodeling projects, and toxic-free building materials.

Larry, next, I’d like to talk about paint. And you and I have tried a lot of different paints. Why don’t you tell me which is your favorite paint?

LARRY REDALIA: My favorite paint, I think, is milk-based paint we used in the office we redid.

DEBRA: And why did you like it?

LARRY REDALIA: It didn’t smell toxic at all. There are other low VOC paints, they don’t smell bad. This one smelled like milk.

DEBRA: It does. It smelled like warm glass of milk.

LARRY REDALIA: Yes. And painting a room, and it just smelled like milk. I was like, “This is wonderful.” I could paint and not have to have a respirator and turn the fan on and everything. This is great.

DEBRA: That’s right.

LARRY REDALIA: I had no problems […] I actually loved painting with that stuff.

DEBRA: Also, one of the things that I love about it is that it has very soft finish, as opposed to the acrylic paints or the latex paints. And you mix it yourself. And so we had fun doing that, coming up with the color. And it’s a beautiful color. It’s so soft and gentle.

But it’s a creative, artistic kind of thing, as well as being a toxic-free thing because it’s just so beautiful, and it’s so hands-on.

You get involved in it. It’s not a plastic thing that you go to the store and they mix up the color for you, and you bring in a swatch. You just create it right on the spot.

Speaking of colors created on the spot, when we did our bathroom, we used colored plaster. So tell us about that, Larry.

LARRY REDALIA: That was a fun project. We didn’t paint above the tiles and the ceiling. We used a colored plaster. You mix the white plaster with some blue powdered stuff, and troweled it on the wall.

First, you put a primer up, which had a little bit of sand in it, so it sticks better. And on top of that primer, just trowel the blue plaster on. It went on and dried, and I was like, “This is interesting stuff.” And it stayed here, and it looks good.

The thing about this is it’s not a sealant. It doesn’t seal out the water. The water can go into it, and it dries right away, and it’s not a problem. It’s actually very good to use in areas that may get a little splash from the shower or sink or such.

We were very happy with that. I love that color too. Of course, we mixed it ourselves.

DEBRA: Well, it’s a sky blue. And so between having the sky outside the skylight, and then having the sky blue on the ceiling, and it’s the color of water. And so it feels like a very watery room.

One of the things that I like about it is that it does seem to control the mold because, as Larry said, it absorbs the moisture in the room even fixing the air. And then it releases the moisture back out into the room. So there’s no condensation running down the walls, and there’s no black mold growing on anything, or any other kind of molds.

It’s a very natural way to have that little breathing going on, the exchange of the moisture with the wall and the room.

Also, you know how sometimes you need to have a little touch-up, and then there’s a little discolored place on the wall. With this, you just mix more of the plaster and put it on, and it looks like it’s been there all the time.

So I think that if I were to just be starting out with a house, and I was building it, or I was remodeling the whole thing and I had to do all the rooms, they would all be colored plaster or milk paint. And I think that in the future when I paint, it’s going to be one of those because the difference is so great to be using those natural materials.

LARRY REDALIA: Yes, it’s a joy to work with it. You don’t wrinkle your nose while you’re using it at all.

DEBRA: You don’t have to turn on the heater to dry the paint. None of that. It just is the least toxic paint, the paint and finishes that I can think of.

Well, so when we got to the kitchen then, we applied some things that we learned from the bathroom. And we did the same thing, putting down a ceramic tile floor, and then we used the marble baseboards. And we put the white subway tile up seven-feet with the crown molding.

And I really believe having done this that this is the way to go for any bathroom or kitchen because both of those rooms involve water and sanitation, and you can just take a sponge, lots of water all over the walls and floors, and whatever kind of disinfectant that you want to use, a natural non-toxic one, of course, and you can clean those rooms with no leaking at all.

It’s just no problem with water.

I just can’t say enough about that.

LARRY REDALIA: I think we went to, it was Hemingway’s house in the Florida Keys.

DEBRA: That’s right.

LARRY REDALIA: We had his kitchen done that way, and there’s white subway tile that’s fairly high. And I thought, “What a good way to go.”

DEBRA: And also, the Gamble house in Pasadena had the same thing in their kitchen. High walls, the whole thing was just walls of subway tile. And I think it’s old fashion. It must have some old fashion reason for being that way.

Some people think that tile is very expensive. We used to think it was expensive until we discovered that you can go to a place like Home Depot or Lowes one of those discount places, and you can buy subway tile very inexpensively. And it looks great. Go to any kitchen or bath design magazine, and you always find subway tile.

And what we do is we use a lot of subway tile, and then we go to the fancy tile store, and pay a couple of hundred-dollars for accent tiles.

And so, it ends up looking like you have a designer kitchen, but it actually costs very little.

LARRY REDALIA: I wanted to say something else about the bathroom. A lot of times, in the bathroom and in the kitchen, to build the walls, they use a green boards which is like a sheetrock but it’s specially made to use in areas that might get wet.

The problem with that is if your grout isn’t exactly water-tight after a number of years, water will get in there, and it will leak, and your tiles will fall off.

I don’t use those anymore when I’m remodeling in a bathroom or kitchen, or an area that might get wet. I just use the HardieBacker board. I don’t use the green board or sheetrock board on areas that might get wet because it’s just a mold trap waiting to happen.

DEBRA: Not only that but they’re also toxic to install. The HardieBacker board is basically cement.

LARRY REDALIA: Yes, cement with some fiber in it.

DEBRA: With some fibers, yes. It’s not a big danger once it’s been applied because the tile will block any fumes that might be coming from it. But you’re putting those toxic chemicals in your home while you’re going through installation.

Larry is doing all this work. And I don’t want him to be affected by toxic chemicals. So we’ll talk more about this when we come back.

= COMMERCIAL BREAK =

DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd, and we’re here with my guest today, Larry Redalia, who has been remodeling with me for 25 years.

What else do we have to talk about, Larry? […] hardwood flooring, laying hardwood floors. So tell us how we lay hardwood floors.

LARRY REDALIA: Well, first of all, we rough up the surface […] a little bit if it’s a sound surface. And then we put Titebond wood glue, and lay the hardwood floor on top of that. It doesn’t have a problem with it coming up or anything.

DEBRA: And this is pre-finished hardwood floors, not engineered, not laminate, but pre-finished, solid wood, hardwood floors. And they come in what’s called Tongue and Groove. They just fit together, and you pour the glue down. This is non-toxic glue.

You pour the glue down in a big puddle, and then you spread it around with a mortar spreader. You’ve probably seen this. It looks like a piece of metal with notches on the side, and a handle. Spread it around nice and even. And then you just lay your wood tiles, or planks in.

You really can’t get it off the floor. It’s water-proof glue, so even if you spill water on it, it’s not going to come up.

I don’t suggest you take a bucket of water, pour it on and mop your hardwood floors. But if you just spill a glass of wine or something, it’s not going to harm it.

I think that this is the way to go. Hardwood floors are extremely non-toxic. What happens with the finish is that they bake it on in the factory, so you don’t have outgassing, like if you were to put down bare floors, and then put a finish on it.

It’s relatively inexpensive, depending on where you buy your hardwood floors, and which style that you choose. We’ve gotten a lot of hardwood floors for $1 to $2 per square-foot. And then we lay them ourselves. We get down on our hands and knees. We don’t pay labor for it because it’s so easy to do the installations.

And we’ve always been very happy. We’ve done this in several houses. I’ve been recommending this to my clients for years.

That’s how easy it is to have a non-toxic floor.

LARRY REDALIA: The only tricky part about is you have to cut the tiles in the edge and if there’s a doorway or a wall or something.

DEBRA: Oh, yes. Well, that’s why I have Larry. He does all the cutting. I do the laying of the tiles in the middle of the room where it’s easy.

LARRY REDALIA: Of course.

DEBRA: And I let him do the hard part. But if you don’t have Larry, you could hire any handyman to do that kind of cut. And again, it’s a creative, artistic kind of thing that you can do in your own home. Anybody could do it. Do it yourself. And you have the pride of having done it, as well as removing whatever toxic flooring that you’ve had.

LARRY REDALIA: Don’t let somebody use a toxic glue to put this down. You don’t need to do that. It’s just Titebond wood glue is the best stuff we’ve found.

At one point, we were just using white glue, and then we had a leak, and the water got on the floor, and […] I was like, “We need something a little more tenacious than that.” And we found the Titebond. It works very, very well […] at all.

DEBRA: Well, Larry, we’re almost coming to the end of our hour. It goes by so fast. Is there anything else that you’d like to say?

LARRY REDALIA: Yes. If you’re looking to remodel something, you can do it non-toxically and often cheaper than using the toxic stuff. And you’ll be doing much better for the environment and your own health too, and the health of the people who live there.

If you love your family, then why remodel toxically? You have a choice. It’s up to you. Each decision you make, to remodel non-toxically, that’s the whole world.

DEBRA: That’s nice. And I agree with that. One of the reasons why I decided to have this subject today is because last Friday, I got a call from the Jennifer Parker Foundation. And what they do, JenniferParkerFoundation.org, is that they help people with extreme chemical injury find or build non-toxic housing that they can manage to live in.

And as we were talking, I realized that, it’s not just people with chemical injury that can’t find toxic-free housing. It’s everybody who can’t find toxic-free housing. And as I was thinking about this, I really saw that over the last 30 or so years that I’ve been wanting to live in a non-toxic house that I could not go into the housing market and find one, even one.

And that in the last 25 years, we’ve moved several times, and each time, we still cannot find one house that is toxic-free.

That says something to me about the state of our housing supply.

LARRY REDALIA: You need to go with the least toxic ones, and improve it from there.

DEBRA: And that’s what we did over and over. And so what I want to say to you is that if you’re living in an ordinary house, there’s probably something toxic about it. And there’s never been a problem that we found in a house that we couldn’t fix.

And so it’s entirely possible for anybody who’s living in any house to fix it, to make the house itself to be toxic-free.

A lot of times, we talk about things like cleaning products or pesticides or beauty products or clothing, those are all consumer products. But what we’re talking about now is the building [show]. We’re talking about the wall, the floors, the cabinets, and all of those kinds of things that come with the house when you get it.

One of the things that I do is, as a consultant, I go to people’s houses that they’re considering buying or renting. And I can tell you where all the toxic things are in these houses. And I’m available to go any place in the world that you might want me to come look at your home and tell you if it’s toxic or not, and what you can do about it.

With our 25 years of experience of remodeling, anything that’s a problem, we can fix.

I’ve worked with a lot of builders. I’ve worked with a lot of architects. I’ve worked with a lot of designers, interior decorators.

And there are toxic-free solutions for any toxic problem. It’s just a matter of knowing what they are.

So that’s a service that’s available to you. And when you call me to help you with a building problem, Larry is available to answer the building aspects of it. Even though I’m not experienced as a builder as much as Larry is, he knows what to do. I can bring the non-toxic aspect to it.

So I just want everyone to know that that’s a service that is available that collectively, we can turn all this whole housing supply into a world of toxic-free houses, instead of a world of toxic houses. And then everybody, regardless of their state of health can all have a safe place to live.

LARRY REDALIA: That sounds like a fine plan to me.

DEBRA: It sounds like a fine plan to me too. Well, we have a few minutes left, Larry. What else do you think we should talk about?

LARRY REDALIA: It just occurred to me the organization, the Habitat for Humanity.

DEBRA: I was just thinking that too. Go ahead.

LARRY REDALIA: Well, they do excellent work in getting lower income people houses that they can live in. But they’re not particularly non-toxic, and I thought, “Maybe they can have a branch that would be non-toxic housing.”

DEBRA: I think we should talk to Habitat for Humanity because I know that they are concerned about things like recycling and making the houses energy-efficient, and those environmental things. But this is something that happens over and over where people get interested in “the environment.” And there’s a set of things that they think are included in that or the definition of green being that is energy-efficient or resource-efficient.

And often, the toxic aspect is left out. And so a lot of people get confused about this. They’ll say, “Well, about this green product, but green does not mean non-toxic.” Non-toxic or toxic-free means non-toxic.

LARRY REDALIA: Right. It could be energy-efficient and toxic as heck.

DEBRA: Well, we know now that compact fluorescent light bulbs are very toxic. They’re toxic to use, not just to drop. And as people have been using them, there’s a whole movement of various agencies and organizations that want compact fluorescent light bulbs to be the only light bulbs used. Yet, if you look at the research, we find that while they’re energy-efficient, they are making people sick.

And what’s really needed is a much larger view that encompasses the health effects, as well as the environmental effects because if you do something that’s safe for health, you’re also doing something that’s safe for the environment because you’re reducing hazardous ways in manufacture and in the disposal of those things.

Every time you throw a compact fluorescent light bulb, you really should be taking it to the household hazardous waste disposal site because it puts toxic mercury into the environment.

LARRY REDALIA: I would hazard a guess that probably 90% of those bulbs are not taken to the hazardous waste area either. They just put it in the regular trash.

DEBRA: I would guess that. I saw somebody just throw it in the waste basket, and I’m not referring to you. We don’t have any compact fluorescent bulbs in my house, but I have seen people just toss them in the waste basket.

And when I point it out to them that it needs to go to the household hazardous waste, they just shrug. But these are the things that we need to be learning as a community, as a nation, as a group, to keep not only our lives safe, but also our future generation safe.

Thank you so much for being with me, Larry. It’s been a great interview. Thanks.

You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd.