Question from SSM
Hi Debra, I learn so much on this site but ohe there is still much more to do.
Mainly I am writing to let you and other readers know of our ‘big goof’.
We succumbed and purchased Behr’s new Premium Plus Ultra paint, it has primer and paint in one and Home Depot swears it is low VOC. So after testing little jars of samples we bought paint in gallons, but when I poured the paint from the can into a roller tray I was totally overwhelmed by the smell of ammonia!
I’m not a kid, I’ve smelled paint and other things my whole life – – but paint that reeks of ammonia? No. My eyes burned, watered, head got a bit swoony – I poured what little was in the tray back and put the lid on it. Of course Home Depot has a nice sticker that says they won’t take it back. I have waited for summer to paint when weather was warm, Needless to say I was angry (and felt more than a little stupid)
So I came back here and searched – this time we went to Lowe’s and bought a quart of their Olympic One – – wow – – I smell nothing.
Debra’s Answer
Well, I am happy to hear of your experience with Olympic One, because that was mine too…nothing. Yet others have written in saying they are having a problem with that paint.
I am wondering if the manufacture of paint is THAT different from batch to batch that sometimes there is a problem and sometimes there isn’t and that is what we are running into.
Sorry you had that experience with Behr, but thanks for sharing.
Normally I use Valspar with good results and no smell. Recently I have used BEHR for a couple of rooms and I used the Premium Plus Ultra, no smell, BUT then I did the molding with BEHR Marquee because HD told me if I wanted the Ultra White it only came in the Marquee. I was skeptical so I bought 3 samples. IT was a few weeks before I started my project and when I opened the first sample I was blown over with the ammonia smell..I wondered if this was an old sample or was there a way I could have damaged the paint by not using it right away…I didn’t think so but I threw it out anyways. I looked for the white that I was using for crafts and started using That one. Next time I got the urge to repaint the molding I opened a new sample and while I was using it the smell appeared again!! A couple of weeks ago a friend told me in one area of my house it smelt like cat pee…I knew it couldn’t be but I used a black light in the areas she smelt it and all the carpeting around it..nothing..I washed the carpet anyways . Then when I opened the next sample and smelt ammonia I did a google search and found this site..yea got my answer to what she was smelling, the paint!!
Then I checked all my BEHR paints and the ones that were Premium Plus Ultra were fine, it’s only the Marquee!!! Will go back to Valspar for next project.
Hello,
We painted with Behr Premium Plus Ultra Ceiling Paint and Behr Marquee in our bedroom and four closets. The smell has not gone away even with windows open (night) and air filters running (day). We have become so ill that we had to move our bedroom into our living room. When I phoned Behr to ask how long the paint smell would take to dissipate, they took the number off the top of the can, put me on hold, came back on the line and told me that to solve the problem I need to paint over the paint with Kilz primer and another topcoat of Behr. They would supply the paint for free. When I asked again how long the smell would take to dissipate, they said maybe two weeks, but that to really solve the problem, I should use Kilz and more paint. Then I found this website: http://www.edpaintingonline.com/blog/interior/getting-rid-of-paint-smell/#comment-76869 and am really worried that there is no other solution besides pulling out the drywall, which is what many others had to do. We can’t pull out the drywall because we rent. Has anyone had any luck getting rid of these kinds of paint smells? We did turn up the heat for three hours only (the entire house). Maybe I should try a room heater although the Behr rep said to save my money on heating and just use the free paint. Of course, he wouldn’t refund my $1200 in labour costs for the contractors we hired and would need to hire to do the job again. The same day we also painted our ceilings in the kitchen/living room with another paint and that smell was gone in two hours. We painted our laundry room a few weeks ago and that smell was gone in two days. Same thing two years ago–no lingering smells beyond a couple of days. And this smell is odd–the Marquee has a fresh paint smell that does not dissipate at all, and the ceiling paint smells like a harsh chemical to me, like a urine puck or vinegar to my sister, like incense to my partner, and like laundry detergent to another person. We used this paint in all of our closets. It is beyond horrible. Other people have tried to use BIN shellac primer and AFM primer to seal in the smell and it hasn’t worked. We are really, really worried!
Unfortunately in the manufacturing process there can be inconsistencies. So even when we find success with one brand, another batch may have problems. It sounds like you aren’t the only one. And this isn’t the only brand that has been inconsistent.
As for a solution, I would go back to baking. Three hours whole house doesn’t do much. Get a space heater and put it IN the closet and close the door. For at least a day. Once I baked a house for a client for a week and all the smell of oil-based paint went away. So I think you need more time with the heat.
I’m not big on sealants of any kind for this purpose because the problem is still there under the seal and may recur at some time in the future. Theoretically, the problem chemicals could eat through the sealant from the inside.
I just want to say that “less toxic” paint comes in a range of degrees of toxicity. There are “low” or “no” VOC paints that are still made from petrochemicals plastics all the way to paints such as Old Fashioned Milk Paint that is completely natural (my favorite paint).
This story is why I would go with the least toxic paint possible. I think some people don’t do this because:
1) It’s unfamiliar.
2) You can’t buy it at Home Depot or Lowe’s or a hardware store.
3) Professional painters will only use their own paint and don’t want to learn anything new.
4) You have to mix the colors yourself and it’s hard to color-match.
Milk paint is not an industrial paint, but it is all natural, totally nontoxic, a joy to work with and beautiful on the wall.
We all need to think outside the box and be willing to try something different instead of a less toxic version of something we already know.
Reader, I’m not saying this is your fault. Clearly Behr gave you a faulty product. I’m just saying a product that is less toxic to begin with would be less likely to have this type of inconsistency.
So if heat done correctly doesn’t solve it, I would sue them in small claims court. You can sue them there for up to $5,000 without an attorney. In fact, this gives me an idea that maybe we could file a lot of suits in small claims courts without attorneys for all kinds of toxics issues we’d like to see changed. Hmmmmm….
The Safecoat paint will seal any offgassing from whatever you paint. Call them and ask to be sure you get the correct product. I have used other no VOC paints, but Safecoat is the only one with no smell and that would seal.
Just used Behrs to paint my kitchen after remodeling due to a long undiscovered water leak. Didn’t bother me at all. After the mold and mildew we found in the saturated sheetrock we had to tear out, guess a little bit of paint smell didn’t phase me in the least. Sure smelt better than the foul smell of the gray water that had collected and the bleach we were forced to use to destroy the assorted slimy stuff that had invaded my kitchen.
Just because a retailer has a sticker on a product like paint that states they won’t take it back – doesn’t mean they won’t. I would take it back, and state that it seems defective. I can understand a company won’t take paint back just because you changed your mind on the color – but if the product is defective, I would insist they take it back. Otherwise, I would go home and e-mail the corporate office – if nothing else, go online and post something about “don’t buy paint at Home Depot – – it would be very foolish of Home Depot or any other retailer to lose a good customer over defective paint.
I did return paint at Home Depot years ago – I told the clerk the paint looked purple, not a bright blue. He said it would dry to be blue on the wall. He was very wrong – so I returned the purple paint and they mixed up the proper blue that I wanted.
I am curious about renting a apartment next year when I try to sell my home. They will paint and clean carpet so can you use a space heater in that situation also or would you turn up the central heat they have there.
COMMENT FROM DEBRA:
I would just turn up the heat on the whole apartment.
Hi there,
I have experienced problems with Benjamin Moore’s Natura paint. After painting my daughter’s room, she is still not able to sleep in it as the smell is so bad. It has been three weeks at this point. After reading many articles on this site and others, I see that I am not the only one that has had this problem with Natura and other Nono-VOC lines. From what I can gather, painting over the walls with another friendlier paint is not a solution. Is this correct? We had a terrible situation last year with caulking and I tried the bake it method and that worked. Is that your recommendations for the paint? What is the minimum time for baking to get results?
COMMENT FROM DEBRA:
I have often used heat to cure paint and have recommended it to many clients. It has never failed to work for me, and nobody has ever told me it failed to work for them, that I can recall.
The minimum I’ve done it is 24 hours and that often works. The maximum it ever took was 8 days for freshly painted oil-based paint.
I generally do it by putting a space heater in a room and turning it to the highest setting, with doors and windows closed.
I’m wondering if the different reactions to Olympic One, some good and some bad, is because of what was painted and/or to the color used. An article at: http://www.afmsafecoat.com/news_page.php?id_news=14 says: “the emission behaviors of chemicals were very different when coatings were applied to non-absorptive substrates such as glass, aluminum, and stainless steel, than they were when they were applied to the absorptive surfaces that they are typically used on such as wood and gypsum board.”
Also, when I ordered samples from Safecoat this a.m., the person there told me that people with MCS who react to their paint most often react to the tint rather than to the basic paint; therefore I should test with tinted paint. So maybe the significantly different reactions experienced had to do with what color was used. It also seems possible that the paint would react differently to what kind of paint it was applied over.
I had the best luck with Aura paint, an acrylic by Benjamin Moore. A wonderful solar-powered organic garden-landscaped hotel in Austin TX, called Habitat Suites, recommended it to me. It’s really expensive in my city but over $15 cheaper per gallon at small towns nearby. I wish I’d checked the BM website for other places earlier, but the Ace store I bought the paint at lied to me, saying that the price is the same everywhere; in fact, each store gets to set their own price.
COMMENT FROM DEBRA:
I had good luck with Aura paint too. So good that I was able to paint a front door and kitchen cabinets myself using this paint, and they both turned out beautifully.
Behr smells like ammonia to me too. I was a professional decorative painter for 10+ years. (I’ve since switched to more fulfilling media like plasters.) I also have chemical sensitivity. In terms of physical reactions, I didn’t even like being in a room that was painted with Behr the day before.
For water solvent paint, I prefer Pittsburgh Paints, the Manor Hall line. Top of the line Benjamin Moore is pretty good, but Manor Hall in my experience gave me and my clients even less of a reaction. It’s more durable, so you need to repaint less often. It’s also a joy to work with, self-leveling, thick, and an open working time of 8-15 minutes. (It doesn’t dry super fast and destroy your brushes and rollers like Behr.)
Of course, I’m always really diligent about setting up good cross and exhaust ventilation. After 2 days of exhaust ventilation for 12 hours each day, even the most super sensitive clients could sleep in the recently painted rooms. Pratt and Lambert is comparable. Pittsburgh doesn’t advertise Manor Hall line as low VOC, but it is. The only downside is you need to stir your paint more often – every time you open the can, and every half hour or so as you paint.