Water | Resources
Dandruff Remedy
Question from sue r.
Is there any natural remedy for dandruff? I am extremely sensitive to odors and head is irritated by the ones I have tried.
Debra’s Answer
Actually, in my very first book, Nontoxic & Natural, published in 1984, there is a remedy for dandruff: baking soda.
“Simply rub a handful of dry baking soda into wet hair and rinse. For the first several weeks of use, hair will be drier than normal, but then the natural oils will begin to make your hair very soft.”
Anyone else have a suggestion for this?
For the Love of Linen
My guest today is Tricia Rose, Founder of Rough Linen, where she makes hand sewn bedding and other household items from exceptional linen fabrics. We’ll be talking about linen as a natural fiber, making things by hand, and living with elegant simplicity. “I didn’t find linen,” Tricia told me, “It came to me. I found this homespun, hand sewn linen pillow slip while I was clearing my grandmother’s cottage in Scotland. It was made by her great-grandmother, in 1840, and was in regular use for three generations. When it came to me I used it to store lavender. Years later, by good fortune, I found a natural linen with the same wonderful texture and feel, and I decided to make bedding in this simple, elemental tradition. I wanted the feeling of connection, appreciation of good materials and handiwork which is part of my heritage as part of my everyday life.” www.roughlinen.com
TOXIC FREE TALK RADIO
For the Love of Linen
Host: Debra Lynn Dadd
Guest: Tricia Rose
Date of Broadcast: April 02, 2014
DEBRA: Hi, I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And this is Toxic Free Talk Radio, where we talk about how to survive in a toxic world and how to live toxic free.
I’m feeling so great this morning. I don’t know if it’s just because it’s spring time and the sun is shining. And it’s 80 degrees outside here in Clearwater, Florida—what’s going on? Maybe it’s because it’s April [inaudible 00:00:24]. It’s a great day for me. It’s Tuesday—no, it’s not. It’s Wednesday, April 2nd. And I’m getting a note that my mic…
TRICIA ROSE: [inaudible 00:00:38]
DEBRA: I’m hoping that sounds better. I can’t tell from here. No? Well, we need to fix this first.
TRICIA ROSE: Alright. You know what, I really…
DEBRA: Okay. Try that. It’s just a mechanical difficulty. And I’ll tell you what it is. It’s just a little place where the cable hooks into the mic. There’s something with the mic that it falls out.
Anyway, today we’re going to have a wonderful show. We always have wonderful shows. In fact, you can go to ToxicFreeTalkRadio.com and you can listen to all the shows that I’ve done for the past. It’s been almost a year, coming up on April 22nd. It will be a year on Toxic Free Talk Radio. So, all the shows are archived on Fridays. Instead of doing a live show, I play some shows from the past. But every single one of them is wonderful, every single one of them has great information and you’ll get to meet the people who are actually creating a toxic-free world.
Today, we’re going to talk about women. My guest is Tricia Rose. She’s the founder of Rough Linen. And she not only makes the things that she offers out of natural fibers, natural linen, but she hand sews them. These are not sewn on big industrial machines. She sews all these products herself. Hi, Tricia.
TRICIA ROSE: Hello. Hi, Debra.
DEBRA: How are you doing?
TRICIA ROSE: I’m fine, but I have to say I do have ladies who help me. I don’t sew everything myself.
DEBRA: Okay. But you’re all sewing like on sewing machines or by hand, or something like that, right?
TRICIA ROSE: We have a very small, little workshop. But it started on my dining room table, so it really is one of those grassroots things.
DEBRA: Yes. Yes. Well, I want to hear everything about what you’re doing. But before we start talking about your products, tell us your story of how you got started in doing this.
TRICIA ROSE: Well, my mother was a health food nut and a natural liver. And I know that she cared very much about where things came from and what they did. So, we had a vegetable garden. We always ate brown bread. We were allowed to have sweets or cookies or pudding only if we made them ourselves, which I think was a terribly clever rule.
DEBRA: I did that myself when I was making a transition from eating garbage food to—I mean, I always ate good food. My mother was a healthy food nut too. She used to make what we now would call a “green smoothie.” She called it a green drink.
And to get us to drink it, she would one of those horrible red—well, it didn’t taste horrible, but a horrible red maraschino cherry. She’d put it in the bottom, so we’d have to drink it in order to get the cherry. She was trying to be helpful. And I think that at the time nobody knew how bad FD&C maraschino cherry was.
TRICIA ROSE: Debra, I’m a great believer in intention.
DEBRA: Yes, me too.
TRICIA ROSE: If your intentions are pure, then some good has to come of it.
DEBRA: I think so too.
And so, when I decided that I was really going to eat natural, and all-healthy, and organic, and not eat so much packaged foods, my rule about any desert at all (except for ice cream), any cookies or cakes, or anything like that, if I was going to eat them, I had to make them myself. I had to make them out of organic ingredients and natural sweeteners.
That really cut down on eating junk food. And I got to have my treat if I actually stuck it through and actually made it.
TRICIA ROSE: Yes.
DEBRA: That’s a good strategy. So, she’d let you eat homemade cookies? Good.
TRICIA ROSE: Yes. And when I was 13, because she couldn’t sew at all—my grandfather sewed—I used to work the treadle for her machine. I mean, don’t ask me how somebody else work the treadle [inaudible 00:05:25].
And so, my mother sent me on a sewing course in the summer holidays. And when I came back, I had one beautiful clumsy dress with big puffed sleeves and a [inaudible 00:05:41] to show for it. I then made her clothes and mine my sister’s, a large proportion of them.
And then later, when was at the university, I wanted extra income. I sewed [inaudible 00:05:55] for other people. And so, I’ve always, always sewn. And all through my marriage, I’ve sewn as well because my husband and I worked together. But his hours tend to be longer.
And I have always gravitated towards beautiful pure fabrics. And then I found a linen pillowcase in my grandmother’s linen closet. I had to clear out her house after 67 years of continuous occupation (my aunt went into a nursing home).
And so, I went to this little stone cottage that I’ve known all my life. And amongst all the free beautiful linens, still wrapped in their cellophane, pure, beautiful linen sheets. I found this one neglected hand-woven, natural-colored [inaudible 0:06:52].
And it hadn’t been at all respected. Someone had put a casing into it and the drawstrings. I assumed it was used a shoe bag or as a laundry bag.
And I have a vague memory of an old spinning wheel, but I couldn’t find it. I knew that this was from my great great grandmother, who had lived in the country in Scotland. And it was around about 1840, which was a point at which people still grew a field of flax for their own use and then they spun it and wove it.
And so, I brought it with me to America. And I kept that [inaudible 00:07:37]. But about four years ago, I found a manufactured linen which had exactly the same texture. It’s obviously not hand-woven, but it has precisely the same texture and color and handle. I thought that I would make myself a duvet cover. I did. People started admiring it, so I made a few more.
And then I had one glass of wine too many one Sunday night and thought, “I need to share this with the world.”
DEBRA: And I’m so glad you did.
TRICIA ROSE: I just wrote a little piece about it and I sent it to a design blog called Remodelista , never thinking that they would run the piece the next day. And suddenly, I had 10 orders. And that was how it started in 2009.
DEBRA: Well, that was exactly the right place. I love Remodelista and Gardenista. I get the Gardenista email every day, and I always read it because it’s so beautiful about…
TRICIA ROSE: It’s a bright spot in the inbox, isn’t it?
DEBRA: It is. It really is, and I highly recommend it, Gardenista.com. It really has a being-aligned-with-nature viewpoint, and bringing nature inside, and using natural materials, and all those kinds of things which is right in alignment with me.
So, they ran it the very next day of course because that is just what they do.
We need to go to break, so we’ll talk more when we come back.
You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd and my guest today is Tricia Rose. She’s the founder of Rough Linen. That’s the name of her website. It’s RoughLinen.com. She has absolutely gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous natural linen bedding and curtains, and other things for the home.
And we’ll be right back to talk with her more.
= COMMERCIAL BREAK =
DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. My guest today is Tricia Rose, founder of Rough Linen. That’s at RoughLinen.com. She makes gorgeous things out of beautiful linen.
Tricia, I know that you started your company because you were inspired by the fabric and the history and the possibilities.
But I’m doing this show because I’m looking for things that are not toxic, which of course yours is. Is there anything you want to tell us about regular fabrics and toxic chemicals?
TRICIA ROSE: I really [inaudible 00:10:38] so much on linen. And I’ve never liked synthetic materials. That said, what would do without Lycra. I don’t know [inaudible 00:10:50]. But I feel like if I look at my underwear, I’m definitely in a state of confusion.
But for big items, like sofas and beds, it’s appalling how toxic they can be. I have a number of these in my [inaudible 00:11:16]. One of them is box-spring. I do not know why anyone in the world has as a box-spring in their bed because, first of all, they’re just very big, and bulky, and ugly.
If you have sprung, laminated wooden slats (like the very expensive European ones), it [inaudible 00:11:40] in a narrow profile.
And then, again, mattresses, since I came to America, first of all, I noticed how enormous the beds were, and then the mattresses have kept on growing with the advent of pillow tops and things.
DEBRA: Yes.
TRICIA ROSE: You have to be so careful. All of that bulk is plastic and rubberizers and [inaudible 00:12:09], why do we want to have that near us? A slimmer profile mattresses (and preferably of natural materials) makes so much more sense than this sort of bed where you need a little ladder to climb into.
I think that would health risks quite apart from [inaudible 00:12:30]. I mean, what happens when people fall out?
DEBRA: That’s a very good point. I was housesitting for a friend of mine who had one of those beds that you have to climb up a little ladder to get in it. Really, I did. It was difficult to get in and out of. I myself sleep on a woodstock bed with maybe five inches of mattress. And it’s all stuffed with wool and natural fibers sheets. Everything about my bed is natural.
But I understand what you’re saying, and I do very much prefer the natural-stuffed mattress on top of the woodstocks in terms of comfort.
TRICIA ROSE: Yes. Yes, I mean, it’s just far more comfortable. Obviously, there’s a hierarchy of bedding. And I would say right at the bottom is nylon and polyester. Although polyester is actually the strongest sheeting that you can have. Polyester is next doors to indestructible, but it [inaudible 00:13:42] and it looks stingy, and it doesn’t feel nice. It has sort of a clamminess next to your skin.
DEBRA: I agree.
TRICIA ROSE: Then you have the poly cotton mixes, then you have cotton which of course is beautiful. But the way that cotton is produced is not beautiful. Cotton has a very high use of irrigation and pesticide because the little ball is a fruit, so the caterpillars and things like it, whereas linen is the stem of a plant and so it’s much less likely to be attacked by insects.
It’s a big tough, longer stem.
We might have trouble [inaudible 00:14:30] pesticide used in linen. It’s basically a weed.
It traditionally was grown in places where it hasn’t needed irrigation. What it does need is a reliably damp autumn. And when it’s harvested—and quite often it’s pulled up by the roots by machines, not by hand anymore—then it is laid in stooks in the field. If allowed to just sit there and get damp, it’s called field resting.
And what happens it that the softer stuff rots away from the long stem. It smells terrible. But then that is harvested [inaudible 00:15:24].
And the reason that linen is relatively expensive is it goes through so many hand mechanical processes after that. You whack it with a little stick, and then you drag it through a bed of nails, and it turns into long hanks. It looks like long blonde hairs. And then, it’s woven [inaudible 00:15:57].
DEBRA: But it’s a very natural process. As you’re talking about, all these are happening in the field and by hand. It’s not something that requires a lot of chemicals and thing like that.
TRICIA ROSE: Exactly.
DEBRA: I just want to describe that linen is the name of the fabric that comes from the flax plant.
TRICIA ROSE: That’s right.
DEBRA: And if you’ve never seen a flax—now, I actually grew up with flax plants in my front yard. And they grew quite large.
They were very good flax, little yellow and green flax. But if you’ve never seen a flax plant or you don’t know what it is, it is like a bunch of blades—big, wide blades. It’s like a blade of grass, but on steroids. It’s very big.
And the flax plants we had when I was growing up were maybe three or four feet high. And there was a bunch. All these leaves would come out.
Oh, I see we need to go break, so I’ll continue my story when we come back.
This is Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And today we’re talking about linen fabric with Tricia Rose, founder of Rough Linen. She has got the most beautiful linen bedding you’ve ever seen. We’ll be right back.
= COMMERCIAL BREAK =
DEBRA: Here we go. You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. My guest today is Tricia Rose, founder of Rough Linen. She’s at RoughLinen.com. And you can go there and see her beautiful things that she makes from linen with hand sewing.
So, to just finish up my story about the linen plant, you can actually see—I remember as a child, I would pull the leaves off the linen plant, and I’d rip them apart, these long strands. I thought that was a lot of fun. I had no idea it was linen at the time. But you can actually see the fiber in the flax plant.
TRICIA ROSE: Oh, yes. Yes. And one of the beautiful things is—but unfortunately, in the United States, there is no fiber flax grown. But there’s a lot of nutritional flax. I mean, flax seed is from linen. It’s a wonderful plant. And anyone who’s driven through fields of flax knows that they’re such large plant, those are. But the field grows green, and the plants go away, the flowers open again and they bloom. It’s a beautiful, ethereal sky blue.
DEBRA: Oh, how beautiful.
TRICIA ROSE: It’s a lovely sight.
DEBRA: I’ve never seen that.
TRICIA ROSE: So, it’s grown…
DEBRA: Go ahead.
TRICIA ROSE: Well, apparently, you can’t use—I mean, it’s a matter of economics, I’m sure. You can’t use the seed flax for fiber. But there used to be a flourishing flax industry.
I mean, it’s what people used to grow. There was in Washington State and in Oregon, in particular, there was a very flourishing flax industry, and an interesting story that comes with it.
At [Inaudible 00:19:20], flax was grown and woven. And the best mills sold flax in America were slaves growing cotton. Flax couldn’t compete with this new cheap slave-grown cotton.
DEBRA: What’s coming to mind is linsey woolsey. Was that linen [inaudible 00:19:45]?
TRICIA ROSE: Linsey woolsey is linen and wool woven together.
DEBRA: Yes.
TRICIA ROSE: I mean, what a wonderful name?!
DEBRA: I know! I love it.
TRICIA ROSE: If you read in the Bible, there are a lot of [inaudible 00:19:58] against mixing wool with linen because pure linen is mentioned over and over again. Pure white linen, it was what you use as a shroud. The priests at the temple wore it.
And I’ve read a lot of stuff on the internet about the purity and helpful vibrations within it which I find very interesting.
I mean, I love linen for itself. It doesn’t sway me in any way except that I find it fascinating that there’s such history going back so far.
In fact, the oldest—not woven, the oldest spun linen fibers ever found were in a cave [inaudible 00:20:50] because of the dye that was used in them, they are 65,000 years old.
DEBRA: Wow!
TRICIA ROSE: So, it’s very likely that people [inaudible 00:20:59] this sort of woody plant, and they just twisted it. It makes a lot of sense.
DEBRA: Yeah. It just kind of blends itself to being a fiber, that you could…
TRICIA ROSE: Absolutely.
DEBRA: Yeah. Also, another thing is that linen is traditionally the preferred fiber for clothing in hot climates because it breathes really well. And here in Florida, I think that linen is actually the correct fiber for us to wear.
And so, does it grow in all kinds of different climates? Could I grow linen in my backyard?
TRICIA ROSE: I don’t think Florida noted for long damp autumns, is it? You might have a bit of trouble. I mean, think of Ireland, Irish linen and Belgium, Belgium linen.
DEBRA: So, it needs to be [inaudible 00:21:50].
TRICIA ROSE: [inaudible 00:21:51]
DEBRA: Yeah.
TRICIA ROSE: Yes. And in those northern latitudes, a short but very intense growing season—it has I think a 60-day growing season. If you haven’t got a reliable dampness, you do need to damp it down. It [inaudible 00:22:13] what we call a wetting pond, and rest it that way (although it needs a bit more supervision). And if you [inaudible 00:22:21].
DEBRA: Now, you have—
TRICIA ROSE: But if you want to wearing linen, it’s cool to the touch. It’s wonderful, just wonderful to sleep under because it retains a sort of wholesomeness and [inaudible 00:22:37] even better than cotton.
Sometimes people who come to linen after cotton say that the handle is harsh because cotton tends to be much smoother.
You have to try them both to find out what you like for yourself. But I’m now at a stage where I can’t stand anything remotely slithery or clingy like bamboo.
DEBRA: I myself love linen. It’s my favorite fiber. We have a store here in the Tampa Bay area where I live that was made as kind of a homage to England from somebody who had gone to England and spent a lot of time there. He wanted to come back and have this store be like a store in England. And I’ve been to England, so I know what that’s like. It’s my favorite place to be in the entire area here where I live.
I went in there one day, and they had whole rack of linen throws, I guess, that you would toss on the sofa. And they were in all these different colors and they had been washed a million times. They were so soft. I just wrapped one of those around me and I didn’t want to take it off.
I didn’t have the $200 that day to buy it, but I went back because I couldn’t stop thinking about it. And when I had the $200, I went back and they didn’t have them anymore. I was so disappointed!
TRICIA ROSE: Oh, dear.
DEBRA: It was like from that moment on, that was all I wanted to sleep in.
I mean, I sleep on cotton flannel sheets, so they’re very cozy, and comfy, and soft. But when I wrapped that linen around my body it was like, “Yes. This is my fiber. This is what I want to sleep on. This is what I want to wrap myself in.” It’s just so attuned with my body.
TRICIA ROSE: Yes.
DEBRA: It was amazing.
TRICIA ROSE: And it’s so versatile because, obviously, if you iron it, it becomes crisp and very, very smooth. And new linen, you need to wash it and to use it before it soften down. And it becomes the most beautifully soft, light, embracing textile quality that you could possibly search for.
DEBRA: It really does. It’s a pretty amazing thing. Well, we need to go to break.
TRICIA ROSE: And it’s easy to care for too. You just wash it. It’s very important not to over dry linen because that will shorten the life of the fiber. This will break it down. It doesn’t like dry heat.
DEBRA: Mm-hmmm…
TRICIA ROSE: So, you can lay off the ironing.
DEBRA: Well, we’re going to break again. When we come back, we’re going to hear all about what Tricia makes at Rough Linen. She has different kinds of linen fabrics. We’re going to hear about that.
You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. We’re talking about linen today with Tricia Rose of Rough Linen. That’s RoughLinen.com. We’ll be right back.
= COMMERCIAL BREAK =
DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. My guest today is Tricia Rose, founder of Rough Linen. That’s at RoughLinen.com. And Tricia, tell us about these different kinds of linen fabrics. What’s the difference between them? You have four different types.
TRICIA ROSE: It’s all linen. It depends where it’s grown, how you can use it. And in fact, just about every part of the plant is used. The tougher, shorter fibers are made into rope. And I’m extremely thrilled that now it’s legal to grow hemp in California.
There was a ridiculous ban on it because it looks exactly like marijuana because it’s the same plant family. I mean, it’s quite ridiculous. You couldn’t grow this absolutely harmless useful plant just because of the way it looked. It would confuse people.
Hemp and linen are related. I’m looking forward. If there is hemp grown in California, I would like to sew it [inaudible 00:27:08] how can I do that.
But the very best linen is grown in Belgium and Ireland. But the trouble is it’s un-economic to process. The reason that you get such a beautiful linen out of that strip—it’s Belgium, France, Ireland, that entire strip, that latitudinal strip, and France and Luxemburg. They’re heavily subsidized there.
And then as you go further north, there is [inaudible 00:27:51], but it tends to be the more utilitarian linen. And there used to be a thriving linen industry in Scotland, in Poland. Lithuania didn’t plant a single hectare of linen last year, not one. And they were big, big producers.
So, there will not be a shortage because the price will simply go up to cope with this. But it does seem like something where it’s one of the places where the government could actually do some good by allowing us to grow linen.
DEBRA: Wow! Yeah, they really should. They absolutely should. So, there’s these four different kinds. Are they different by—like if I were wanting to choose to buy some bed linens and you have Orkney smooth linen, St. Barts, and Myriad. How would I know what the difference is in those? Which one would I want to choose?
TRICIA ROSE: Yeah. Orkney is my original and best-loved linen. That’s the one that has the homespun texture. We sell it now. I have Orkney natural (which is the one that my heart belongs to), Orkney white (which is a creamy white), and I have flax which I use to make a pinafore. I didn’t mean to go into clothing. But once again, I made a pinafore, and it’s been selling like hot cake.
So, a pinafore, it’s like an apron. It’s based on an old Amish canning apron. You slip it over your head, the straps cross at the back, and you don’t have to tie it. Both your hands are free. You don’t have to mess about behind you. And it’s a wonderful garment because you have two great big pockets. So, my iPhone is one pocket, everything else is in the other.
And it’s just a very useful garment.
But anyway, sorry, that is Orkney and that is the toughest of them all.
Then I have St. Barts, which is very like the Orkney. It’s just a little bit lighter. And the reason I carry St. Barts is that it’s the only one I can get in color. And so I make curtains, in particular, out of that and some duvet covers.
Of course, most of the people who buy my linen goes for natural all-white. That’s the way it is.
Then Myriad is an off-white open-weave curtain material. So, it’s like with a shear, and I only can use it for curtains. It’s too loose for anything else. I couldn’t resist it. And the third linen…
DEBRA: And I’m looking at the pictures on your site as you’re describing these. And the Myriad, really, it’s diaphanous. I thought that were diaphanous.
TRICIA ROSE: I got a lot of teasing about the photograph from the website. I was soaking the curtain material and I loved the texture. And I love the way all linen curtains move in the breeze. They are just wonderful, the way they float. But people were saying, “Ooh, Tricia. You’re in love with a curtain.
And then, our third linen is woven for me to my specification, double width. I wanted to make a sheet, and you cannot have a sheet with a seam in it. So, it has to be at least 120 inches wide. Mine, it varies. I’ve learnt such a lot about the finishing of linen. It varies between 123 and 128 inches wide depending on the batch. And I have that in natural and I have it in white.
When people ask me if my fabrics are natural, the white has been bleached, there’s no way I can get around it. It has been bleached. So it has been treated chemically. And the colors have been bleached before they’ve been dyed. So, for people who do have chemical sensitivities, I would send them the natural.
DEBRA: Yes. It’s nice that you have both those choices to make. And I see some of the other things that you have besides the beddings and curtains. I see there’s a shower curtain here and various table runners, and napkins, and placemats, and things like that. So you can just look around her site and see all these lovely things to bring linen into your home.
TRICIA ROSE: Right.
DEBRA: I also wanted to—
TRICIA ROSE: The napkins are a wonderful—I’m sorry, dear.
DEBRA: Go ahead. You go ahead.
TRICIA ROSE: The napkins are wonderful for everyday use because, first, you don’t have to iron them. You’re not stuffing around. I make them a generous five. And the texture gives you plenty of traction if you got a bit of mustard on your chin.
And you just use them every day, and wash them, don’t iron them (don’t give yourself that amount of work). And they look very attractive.
I use the old-fashioned napkin rings, so that we can tell whose napkin is whose. So we don’t change them every day. That’s too much hard work.
DEBRA: Oh, yes. I use cloth napkins. And I actually have some linen napkins. I’m looking on your page here and I looked at this picture of the restaurant, and I went, “Oh, that looks familiar.” I used to live in [West Marine in Forest Hills]. Here, this restaurant is there in [inaudible 00:34:04]. I know that building. I’ve been in that room.
TRICIA ROSE: It’s such a beautiful room, yes.
DEBRA: It is.
TRICIA ROSE: Yes. I was very honored that they’ve heard of my linen. It goes completely with the ethos because it’s local…
DEBRA: Absolutely. They would be perfect.
TRICIA ROSE: Yeah.
DEBRA: They’re perfect, perfect. So, I just wanted to talk a little bit. We’re almost near the end of the show, but I wanted to talk a little bit about hand-made things. Could you just speak to the importance of hand-made items in your home?
TRICIA ROSE: I think the real importance of hand-made items is to the person who makes it because there’s such a disconnect. If you don’t create anything, you’re robbing yourself of an interaction with the rest of the world.
I mean, I think it’s almost the leaning of our day to day reality. I would include in that gardening, or looking after animals or pets, as well as crocheting and sewing, and knitting. I mean, even making up your face can be an art form.
DEBRA: Oh, of course.
TRICIA ROSE: Yes. So, one of my favorites, I used to love to braid my daughter’s hair. You know how little girls are. They’re quite [inaudible 00:35:31]. So I would do that. It’s almost like cornrowing. That’s what you do on the tail of a horse. And it would keep her hair beautifully neat all day. And I felt when she went out through the door, she looked as though somebody loved her because somebody had taken the time to braid her hair.
I mean, that sort of everyday [inaudible 00:35:55], it’s an art form to anyone—and men too. It isn’t just if you’re a woman in a domestic context (and most of us work now). But for men to work with their hands, and women—
I’m on Gandhi’s side. He used to sit and weave he needed to think.
DEBRA: Yes. One of the things that I do is I make desserts from natural, organic, and natural sweeteners. And now I make them gluten free. But I bring them to—whenever there’s a potluck or something, I’m always bringing things that are hand-made as opposed to going and buying something because so many people just go buy something and bring it to the potluck.
TRICIA ROSE: Yeah.
DEBRA: And I remember, one day, I had made these cookies. I had to just kind of padded them with my fingers instead of rolling them with the rolling pin. A friend of mine picked one up and she said, “I can see Debra’s fingerprints in the cookies.” I almost cried when she said that because it’s like that’s what we should have our lives to be about. It’s to see that love in the products that we use every day.
And I’m going to run out of time saying this here, so I’m going to say it really fast. But my wool bed, I know the girls that sewed it. I know where the sheet came from. And I know when I ordered your sheets that you sewed them, and that’s going to be special to me.
TRICIA ROSE: I want to know where everything comes from, and we love things.
DEBRA: I need to stop because we’re really out of time. They’re going to cut us off.
TRICIA ROSE: Thank you so much, Debra.
DEBRA: Thank you so much for being on the show. I love what you’re doing. Good luck to you with everything. You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. Bye.
BONA FREE AND CLEAR
Question from Bonnie Johnson
Bona floor cleaner has a new one called Free and Simple. Has anyone tried it?
Debra’s Answer
Readers?
Overcoming the Challenges of Finding Toxic-Free Home Furnishings
My guest today is interior designer Sarah Valiant, Founder of Valiant Design Company. We’ll be talking about toxic chemicals in home furnishing and decorating products, the toxic-free products she uses for her clients, and how we can help encourage change in the interior design field. Over the last few years, Sarah noticed a substantial shift with her clients’ wishes for toxic-free options for the decor in their homes. As Sarah herself believes in a toxic-free environment for her own family, she eagerly embraced this change. So much of what we decorate our homes with is replete with formaldehyde, phthalates, VOC’s, flame retardants and toxic glues. With all of these chemicals being severely detrimental to our health, Sarah believes it is imperative that we work to bring to market, options that are safe for us and the health of our families. Sarah was very hard pressed to find healthy, yet attractive design items for her clients due to a severe lack of options on the market and so she decided to develop her own solution. Her company, Valiant Design Co., developed a product line called Healthy Home. Currently it designs and manufactures a line of organic and toxic-free cushions, but Sarah intends to expand that to include furniture, fabric, and bedding in the near future. Sarah acquired a Bachelor of Commerce (Hons) from Queen’s University and began her career in event design. She later attended the KLC London School of Design in the UK. After graduating with Honors, she worked for two leading design firms in London and Paris before returning home to Canada to start up her dream company. Her passion to create beauty through functional and toxic-free design drives her from project to project. www.valiantdesignco.com
TOXIC FREE TALK RADIO
Overcoming the Challenges of Finding Toxic Free Home Furnishings
Host: Debra Lynn Dadd
Guest: Sarah Valiant
Date of Broadcast: April 01, 2014
DEBRA: Hi, I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And this is Toxic Free Talk Radio where we talk about how to thrive in a toxic world and how to live toxic-free.
We did that because there are so many toxic chemicals all over the place that we need to know how to recognize them, watch out for them, eliminate them from our homes and workplaces and our bodies. And when we do that, we increase our quality of life because it improves our bodies, minds, and even our spiritual awareness.
So, what I do here is I talk to people who are doing the things that are making our world less toxic.
Today is Tuesday, April 1st 2014. And though it’s April Fool’s Day, we are not fooling around here. We are actually coming up with solutions that make our lives less toxic.
Today, we’re going to talk about the interior spaces of our homes with interior designer, Sarah Valiant. She’s the founder of Valiant Design Company. And I can tell you, her big vision is to create a whole line of everything that you would put in your house.
She started with one product. But she’s so passionate and has so much information about the chemicals that are in products and her ideals about how to change things that I wanted to have her on the show.
Hi Sarah.
SARAH VALIANT: Hi Debra! How are you?
DEBRA: Oh, good. How are you?
SARAH VALIANT: I am well. Thank you so much for having me on today.
DEBRA: It’s my pleasure.
Now, I always like to ask people this question because everybody kind of starts out being a normal American consumer buying toxic products, and then something happens or changes… and then, your life changes. I’d like everybody to go through that transition. So how did that happen for you?
SARAH VALIANT: Well, it happened a few years ago in a number of different ways. I really started noticing that a number of my friends and family members were battling cancer. They had a huge influx of infertility problems. And we’re also dealing with chronic health issues.
And also, my husband and I was starting talking about starting a family.
And then, in the past few years, I had articles that popped up on my newsfeeds about chemicals in our food and in our homes and cleaning products and what-not. And it would register with me for a few minutes, but I wasn’t paying enough attention to it.
And so, when all of these things were happening with my friends and family, and we started talking about a family, I just scouring all these past articles for every possible detail because I really realized how difficult it is to make sure that we live within a toxic-free home.
DEBRA: Yes, it is. And then, what happened?
SARAH VALIANT: I guess with starting to talk about starting a family, I had a number of clients also that were wanting to focus more on having toxic-free homes and how to eliminate them. Sorry, I’m just getting a bit distracted here.
Can we talk more about the furniture in our home?
DEBRA: Well… yes, we can do that. Is there more to your story that you’d like to tell us?
SARAH VALIANT: Yeah, I guess…
DEBRA: Okay, so let me ask you a question. How did you go from reading all these things in the newspaper to making a decision in your life to do things differently? What happened in that decision-making process?
SARAH VALIANT: Well, guess with all of the information that I was taking in, I really started figuring out that all of these toxic chemicals are really in everything we have. They’re in our cleaning products. They’re in our furniture.
And doing more research in what’s the regulations that we all think that are in place to protect us from all of these things, they’re really not doing what we think.
When you look on an ingredient list for a product, for a cleaning product or your face wash, for example, you’d think, “Okay! Well, all of these chemicals that are in these bottles, I guess they must be okay for me.” Most consumers are thinking that. You’re just assuming that all of these regulations are in place to protect you.
And unfortunately, all of these chemicals are horrific for you. They cause so many different problems—cancer, infertility problems, breathing problems. And it’s really up to us to make the best choices for us and for our families.
DEBRA: So, as an interior designer, as you kind of looked around in your field, what did you find?
SARAH VALIANT: So, in so many different things like our furnishing, there are so many different types of chemicals. And I feel like that the main chemicals that we need to watch out for are formaldehyde, phthalates, VOC’s (which are volatile organic compounds) and flame retardants.
They’re in everything from kitchen cabinets, foam cushions, mattresses, wallpapers and paints. You just need to be very careful about what you’re purchasing because the majority of what is out there and what we bring into our home contains all of these chemicals. We really need to start looking for the manufacturers that are making these products without all of these chemicals because they really are unnecessary.
DEBRA: They really are unnecessary, I know. I’ve been doing this for more than thirty years. And so I’ve been doing exactly—and my process was pretty much like your process (and I think it is for most people), you find out that there are toxic chemicals, that there’s some kind of illness in your own personal life or in people around you, and then the light bulb goes off, and you go, “Oh, my God! The chemicals are causing these.”
SARAH VALIANT: Exactly!
DEBRA: and know in my own life that when I started identifying where those toxic chemicals were in the products and swapping them out for other products that didn’t have the toxic chemicals, my symptoms went away. I felt better and I could think more clearly.
But but when I started doing this thirty years ago, there weren’t so many products available as there are now. And it was much more difficult.
But even now, even now, even though—I live (and I think you do too, and a lot of my guests too)— we live in a world of our own creation where I decided I’m only going to let things that are toxic-free into my home (and most of my friends are people who share that same idea, so it seems like common place), but really, what’s happening is that we’re only one, little tiny percentage, and the whole rest of the world is still toxic.
All of that needs to change as well because it’s not just about each of us living in our own houses; it’s about we walk out the door, and it’s still toxic. And when we go to try to find something, a sofa for our house or something like that, you can’t just go down to the sofa store and buy a toxic-free sofa.
DEBRA: Yeah, that’s the problem.
SARAH VALIANT: That’s the problem right now.
So, tell us more about some of the problems that you’ve run into as a designer, the things that you’re finding and things that are difficult for you to find.
SARAH VALIANT: Exactly! As I’ve mentioned earlier, I do have a number of clients that are really looking towards improving the toxicity of their homes. And as a designer, finding those options, it is difficult.
It is getting better. I do have a number of suppliers that I do go to. But the majority of what is out there that is toxic-free tends to, I guess, cater to a style that may be a hippie style or as a very uber-contemporary style. You don’t have that middle ground, that transitional style. I call it “transitional,” a mix between contemporary and traditional.
And that, to me, most of my clients are of that type of […] And we don’t have an option that can give us that look.
And I really find that, in our mindset, we’re not willing to sacrifice style for toxic-free (or the majority of people are not). And I think if we are going to make this change…
DEBRA: That is a very good point. I want to talk about exactly that point when we come back from the break.
You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And my guests today interior designer, Sarah Valiant, of Valiant Design Company. That’s at ValiantDesignCo.com. And we’ll be right back to talk more about interior design and toxic chemicals.
DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And my guest today is interior designer, Sarah Valiant. She’s the founder of Valiant Design Cmpany. She’s moving in the direction of making more and more toxic-free furnishings, everything that you would use in your home, available.
So, Sarah, before the break, you’ve made the comment that people don’t want to sacrifice design for things being toxic-free. Tell me more about that. I have my own ideas on that point, but you go first.
SARAH VALIANT: Well, I just feel that if someone is looking for, let’s say, a chair and they’re walking down the street. If they pass a small store, and it has the perfect chair they’re looking for, it’s at the right price, they’re not really going to go and look for a toxic-free counterpart or the toxic-free option of that chair.
And I think that if we want to really affect change, we’re going to have to provide more options for these people to have a go-to place to go to to have the toxic-free option.
At the moment, it’s difficult to find. You have to do a lot of research. And the places that do have toxic-free options, they’re usually one-off stores. It’s not like a large chain like, say, Pottery Barn or Ikea. You don’t usually have the wonderful websites that you can go to to have shipping and all of that. It’s just too difficult to find the toxic-free options.
DEBRA: I agree with you 100%. I’m a very visual, aesthetic person. And I like things really nice and look beautiful in my house.
SARAH VALIANT: Exactly!
DEBRA: And that’s been one of the challenges for me.
I do have beautiful things in my house. When people walk into my house, they say, “Oh, how beautiful! What a lovely, aesthetic place.” And yet, most of what I have in my house in terms of furnishing, I’ve had to you either have custom-made for myself or make it myself.
Right now, I’m sitting on a chair at my desk that is not very comfortable. I’ll be honest. I would rather have one of those nice, cushy desk chairs with padding and wheels. But I can’t find one that’s made from materials that I would want to sit on.
And so, in order for me to have that, I’m going to have to have it custom-made. And I just can’t even imagine how much that would cost, $1000 or $2000.
SARAH VALIANT: Yeah, sure. And that’s for every item in your home. So, that’s not usually doable.
DEBRA: And so, what I’m sitting on now is a solid wood dining table chair, just kind of a mission style arts and crafts. It’s kind of plain. It doesn’t even have any finish on it. I just bought it at the unfinished furniture store. I would […] on it.
And it’s good. Everything’s all natural about it. It’s natural wood. I have a wool pillow with a cotton cover. It’s all perfectly fine in terms of being toxic-free. But it’s not as comfortable as I would like. And it doesn’t have the visual appeal that I would like.
But that doesn’t mean that something can’t be beautiful. I have a gorgeous sofa. I have a gorgeous sofa that I had custom-made. I got an old sofa frame, and I had it re-upholstered in linen. And it’s absolutely beautiful.
And I had my wing chair from my great aunt upholstered in a cotton tapestry. And in my office, my desk that I use is an old oak library table from Stanford University that I got at a salvage place. And the edges were all ragged.
And so my husband cut all the edges off around this whole table and put a new edge all the way around it in purple heartwood.
SARAH VALIANT: Oh, my God!
DEBRA: And so I have a purple edge all the way around.
First of all, you would never find this. It’s the most beautiful desk you’ve ever seen. He made these little purple handles for it too. And you would never find it in a store, number one; and number two, if you did, I just can’t even imagine how much it would cost.
It cost us $50 to buy the old ratty table which was in pieces. It wasn’t even a table. He found the pieces at the salvage yard; and maybe another $50 in wood to fix that. And then, we put on a non-toxic finish. But it was a lot of labor for him and a lot of design stuff.
But I have all these beautiful things because there handmade. You can’t go into a store and buy this.
SARAH VALIANT: No. And if we’re going to really make change, we have to make toxic-free options really reachable for the masses. We’re not going to be able to make that change without that.
DEBRA: Many years ago—I was just looking at this the other day, it was like 25 years ago. Wow! I can’t even imagine doing something 25 years ago. That’s such a big number. But 25 years ago, I co-founded a corporation that what we wanted to do was make green products available to the masses—green products, not non-toxic specifically, but products that had environmental benefits.
And what we found in doing the R&D for that was that people wanted products with environmental benefits, but they weren’t willing to give up function and what they wanted out of the product in the first place.
SARAH VALIANT: Mm-hmmm… absolutely!
DEBRA: And remember, these aren’t products that are affecting their health, these are products that are affecting the environment. That’s another question because what happens to the environment happens to us.
But anyway, what we found was that if there were two products on the shelf, if they were comparatively priced and if one of them had environmental benefits and the other didn’t, but they were otherwise similar, that people were willing to buy the one with the environmental benefit.
And I think that that’s where we need to go with products being toxic-free as well. There needs to be more products available that it just is a no-brainer to choose them.
SARAH VALIANT: Oh, absolutely! As you’ve mentioned, everything, if you go into a big box store with furniture, it is going to be filled with formaldehyde, with flame retardants that are just slowly killing us really.
DEBRA: You just go into any of those stores, and you just see product after product after product. All the household products all have toxic chemicals in them. It’s really hard to find anything that doesn’t.
We’ve got to go to another break. But when we come back, we’ll talk more with my guest, Sarah Valiant, about toxic-free interior design. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And you’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio.
DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And my guest today is interior designer, Sarah Valiant. I keep tripping over your name, Sarah Valiant. Her website is ValiantDesignCo.com. And we’re talking about toxic-free interior design and some of the challenges that need to be overcome in order for everybody to have a toxic-free home.
One thing I want to say about this whole issue of people having to choose between style and toxic-free is that what I found is that toxic-free materials that are available that can be fashioned in any designed. But what you say is true. You can’t, at this point in time, just go into a store and say, “Oh, here’s 10 different design styles all in toxic-free furniture that we can just take home with us right now.”
And that’s the problem. That’s where we are in this transition. And that’s what you’re wanting to address.
I know that you lived in Europe for a while. So tell us how different is there. I haven’t lived in Europe, but I’ve been to Europe. I was struck, greatly struck, about how different it is there.
SARAH VALIANT: Yeah, I lived there for three years. And they really just have a completely different mindset towards chemicals and toxins in our everyday products.
I mean, the E.U. has banned 1100 chemicals that are considered unsafe for our health, while over here, the FDA has only banned I think five and the EPA has banned 11.
So, we’re really not on the same level as they are in terms of just making the changes that are absolutely necessary. They have a number of regulations in place that are more restrictive on the chemical companies that we think we have over here, but I find, more often, they’re really trying to protect them more rather than protecting us. And I think that’s one of the major, major issues we have.
We also have so many lobbyists that are really up there protecting these chemical companies. And all we can do is make our voice heard as loud as possible.
And the other way, obviously, that we can make change is to start making proper choices when we’re making changes to our homes. It’s all of our purchases from this point forward. We’re making choices that are toxic-free rather than their toxic counterparts. That will also help affect change.
DEBRA: Well, Sarah, tell us about what you’re doing to get started with moving in the right direction.
SARAH VALIANT: Well, I recently started a toxic-free product line. We’re starting with cushions at the moment.
They have organic cotton, organic muslin, architect-standard linen and silk and also what they call cotton batting. I feel that you really need these options for décor in your home.
It’s the small changes. If we can make these small changes (even just accessories like cushions, blankets, whatever), it will help us really improve our home.
I think we maybe should talk about also the chemicals that we mentioned briefly earlier, the chemicals that you need to watch out for, what they’re in. And then, maybe we can talk about that there are definitely some companies that you can go to to get these toxic-free options.
DEBRA: Okay, good. Let’s do that. Tell us about some of the chemicals and where you find them.
SARAH VALIANT: So, the four ones that I really feel are very important (and that I’m always mentioning to my clients) are formaldehyde, phthalates, VOC’s (which are volatile organic compounds) and flame retardants.
So, formaldehyde is found in particle boards. So, if you think of the sheath wood products that you can get from the big box stores, foam cushions, mattresses and carpeting, and thinking that formaldehyde causes horrific problems like cancer and respiratory issues, developmental disorders—I could go on.
Phthalates are found in vinyl wallpapers, paints, carpeting again.
And VOC’s, I think people are hearing more about VOC’s now than the others. They’re in paint and also building materials and carpeting as well.
And flame retardants are found in fabric and mattresses and, again, in carpeting.
DEBRA: Carpeting sounds pretty bad. I think there’s something like 250 chemicals in carpeting. I would have to go look that up.
SARAH VALIANT: I think that’s exactly right. I never, ever advise clients to do carpeting in their home. I really believe it’s one of the most toxic things you can bring into your house.
DEBRA: I agree, I agree. One of the things that I do is consulting where I go to people’s houses and I help them identify the toxic chemicals, and then make suggestions about what they can do to be less toxic.
And I remember, one day, I went into a client’s house and I said, “I’m sorry to tell you this, but really, the biggest toxic problem you have in your house is your carpet.” I was so proud of her. She said, “Well, let’s just take it right out.”
SARAH VALIANT: Oh, wow!
DEBRA: And she and I got down on our hands and knees and ripped her carpet apart.
SARAH VALIANT: Oh, my gosh! We like that type of reaction.
DEBRA: Yes, we do!
SARAH VALIANT: Oh, my God!
DEBRA: I learned to wear work clothes when I go to consultations.
SARAH VALIANT: Oh, my gosh!
DEBRA: But I would just like to see everybody rip their carpet out really.
SARAH VALIANT: Well, I really feel that people are shocked. They are absolutely unaware that all of these things have all of these chemicals in them, and that they’re so toxic to our health. They just don’t know. And so, I really feel that we need to spread the word about all of these because people are just shocked. And when you tell them what’s in it, 100%, they’re going to want to make the change. We just need to make them aware.
DEBRA: I agree. I see, if you just go walk around just out in the world and look at people just passing by on the street, and seeing how they look and that they’re sniffling or coughing or whatever’s going on with them or they can’t walk or whatever, every single one of those things is related to toxic chemical exposure or what their eating—and/or what they’re eating.
I’m at this point now where I can look at somebody and I can tell you what they eat. I can tell you what chemicals they’re being exposed to. If everybody change what they eat, change the toxic chemicals, we would be such a healthy nation—we would, we absolutely would.
SARAH VALIANT: We would. Exactly true.
DEBRA: Actually, we’re coming up to the break very soon. When we come back from the break, what we’ll do is you can tell us about some of the great products that you’ve found that are toxic free that are out there. We talk about them on the show all the time. I’ve interviewed some of them, but you probably know more than I do.
And also, I’ll just mention that it’s great to know an interior designer like Sarah (or a local interior designer that you know) because they have access to many more things that are not in retail stores. An interior designer friend of mine once took me shopping in the design showrooms. And I was delighted to see what’s available that’s not in the store.
So, we’ll come back. You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. My guest is interior designer, Sarah Valiant. She’s at ValiantDesignCo.com. We’ll come back and tell you some toxic-free products that you can use in your home.
DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. My guest today is interior designer, Sarah Valiant. I don’t know why I keep saying that.
SARAH VALIANT: Sarah is a fairly common name.
DEBRA: I know! Sarah Valiant. It has to do with the way the vowels are I think. I don’t know!
Anyway, I’m Debra Lynn Dadd—I can say my name. Sarah Valiant is my guest. And she’s at ValiantDesignCo.com.
Did you ever used to watch Mary Tyler Moore, that show? I’m old enough for that show. You know the Mary Tyler Moore Show?
SARAH VALIANT: Yes!
DEBRA: and they had Ted Baxter, the news guy. And he was always mispronouncing people’s names. Anyway, I’m not like that.
Now, tell us about some products that are toxic-free that you can use in your home.
SARAH VALIANT: Right! We have been talking about that they are difficult to find. It’s not as easy as going to the nearest big box store. But they are out there, 100%. And as an interior designer, I found companies all over North American that, really, they do actually have a number of options that are very effective—more of the transitional, more common type styles.
One of the first ones is White Lotus Home. And they’re I believe located at…
DEBRA: I love White Lotus Home. I’ve been to their store.
SARAH VALIANT: They’re amazing! I actually use their cotton for our cushions. It’s amazing! They have everything from mattresses to beddings to cushion support to whatever. But it’s all organic. And I mean, there are lower price points. I think they just got a recycled option which I guess may not have had pesticide used. But they have a lot of options.
Another one that I found recently is called EcoSelect Furniture. And they’re located—have you heard of them before?
DEBRA: No, I haven’t.
SARAH VALIANT: I think they’re in South California. And they are fantastic! They have a huge line of traditional style—it’s not just an uber contemporary thing that we seem to get stuck with when it comes to eco and toxic-free.
It’s perfect for any type of style.
There’s also Green Slade. And they’re at GreenSlade.com. They’re great for accessories and décor, all toxic-free, lead-free, you name it. They have a great variety of all that type of smaller accessories.
And then, of course, my cushion line is at Valiant Design Co. Healthy Home. And as I’ve mentioned, it’s all organic, toxic-free options. And it’s more of a transitional style (so again, moving away from the uber contemporary that most of my clients don’t seem to gravitate towards anyways).
If we’re talking about paint, what I love to use is actually a Benjamin Moore line. It’s called Natura Paint. And the great thing with having a VOC-free option with Benjamin Moore is that you have the entire library of colors that they have. And obviously, Benjamin Moore is one of the biggest paint companies in North America.
DEBRA: And also, you can get it anywhere you live.
SARAH VALIANT: Exactly!
DEBRA: You can just go down to the Benjamin Moore store and get it.
SARAH VALIANT: Exactly! I think it’s even carried in some hardware stores. I wouldn’t be surprised.
And it’s all VOC-free. And that’s really what you want to go for when you’re painting anything in your house. The non-VOC counterparts are just filled with stuff that’s really bad for you, and it off-gasses for years. So, you want to stay away from that.
There are also a few smaller companies that I’ve called Mythic Paint and YOLO paint. And also, there’s the old fashion milk paint. And they have a bit smalle of a color library, but they’re just gorgeous colors—and again, completely VOC-free (which is what we’re going for).
DEBRA: I just want to mention that I I’ve not used all those paints. But all of them are listed on Debra’s List and I’m familiar with all those paints. But I have used the old-fashioned milk paint. And I just want to say how wonderful, wonderful, wonderful it is.
SARAH VALIANT: It is wonderful. It’s fantastic!
DEBRA: You buy it as a little powder like powdered milk. You mix it up and it smells like a warm glass of milk.
SARAH VALIANT: It’s true! I mean, who wants to walk into a room that’s newly painted and it’s hard to breathe?
DEBRA: But you have to be willing to be creative because you can’t just go down to the paint store and say, “Here’s my swatch, make it this color.” You have to order the powder pigments from the old-fashioned paint company and mix it up yourself and make sure that you mix enough so that the color doesn’t change in the middle of the wall.
SARAH VALIANT: That one, you definitely need a little formula.
DEBRA: It’s a process. It really is a process—but it’s a creative process. I’ve done it, and I just love it! Out of all the rooms in my house—I paint each room with different paint because I was trying out different types of paint. But the room that I love the most is the one with the milk paint. And if I were moving into a new house, I would just paint every wall with milk paint.
SARAH VALIANT: Yup, absolutely. I think we really need to focus on VOC-free paint. It’s definitely pretty detrimental to your health when you’re using just the regular paint.
That’s another thing I wanted to mention. When you’re finishing hardwood floors, the traditional polyurethane coat is just horrible for you.
DEBRA: It’s horrible.
SARAH VALIANT: There’s also a bunch of different finishes that you can use. There’s one I’ve used a number of times, it’s called tung oil. And there’s also a finish called Polywhey. They hardly smell at all, so you’re not worrying about the off-gassing that goes on for years and years and years.
It’s just something we really need to focus on when we’re redoing our homes, absolutely.
DEBRA: Polywhey from Natural Coatings?
SARAH VALIANT: Yeah, exactly.
DEBRA: Yeah! I have used that. And that’s actually my favorite wood finish at the moment.
SARAH VALIANT: Ah, amazing!
DEBRA: I had a rental house, and we had to redo the floors after our renter moved out. I just painted that stuff all over the place, and it hardly smelled at all. And it’s so beautiful! It leaves such a beautiful finish.
And so, one of the points I wanted to make is that, a lot of times, for me, I found that the toxic-free thing is so much more aesthetically pleasing than the toxic thing. It just is more beautiful. It has a nicer texture that I’d rather put my hand on a natural fiber than a synthetic fiber. And just all the way down the line, I think the colors are more beautiful. It gives a better feel, better texture, everything. It’s just like having nature.
And so, once you just start exploring this world of things that are not toxic, then a whole different world opens up really, don’t you think?
SARAH VALIANT: It really does. It’s amazing! And I think if more and more people can do a little bit of research that it requires (because not everyone is going to do it at this point), as more and more people can, that’s really going to change the market. That’s what we want to do. We want to make all of these items more available to everyone.
DEBRA: Now, anybody who’s listening can go to my website, and there’s a section—like if you just go to ToxicFreeTalkRadiol.com, just go up to the navigation bar at the top, and it says ‘Shop.’ If you click on ‘Shop’, it will take you to Debra’s List where I have 700 websites…
SARAH VALIANT: Amazing!
DEBRA: A lot of them are for things like furniture and paint and all these things that you use in your home, cabinets. All these things, whenever I find out about something, I put it on Debra’s List. And some of them, I’ve been recommending for 25 to 30 years.
SARAH VALIANT: Oh, amazing!
DEBRA: So, there really is so much available that you really can create a toxic-free home, 100%.
I think what Sarah and I are talking about today in terms of things not being available is that it’s not widely available. It’s not available every place you look. It’s not available in an affordable way. When I wanted to get a sofa 20 years ago, I had to go have it custom-made. I think it was $2000 or $3000 at the time. I couldn’t just walk into a store and bring my sofa home at the back of my car for $600 or whatever.
And so, that might sound like a lot of money, but it’s an investment in my health, in my happiness and in my life. I still have that sofa. I’ll still have it for the rest of my life. It’s not going to wear out. If I had children, I could hand it down to them.
And I don’t pay that money in medical bills, I put it on my sofa.
SARAH VALIANT: That’s the thing. And all of these chemicals, they really do cause a lot of these problems that you’re mentioning.
DEBRA: They really do.
SARAH VALIANT: They really, really do. I mean, I feel with the majority of my clients, and even friends or family, even minor issues that you may be having like rashes or mild asthma or what-not, when we switched all of our cleaning products, all of our furnitures, and what-not, et cetera, over to toxic-free options, these minor problems, they just go away. It’s incredible!
DEBRA: Well, good. Everybody should try it.
SARAH VALIANT: It’s incredible! They just go away. It’s amazing.
DEBRA: So Sarah, we have about 39 seconds left before the music is going to come out and cut us off, so I just want to thank you for being on the show today.
SARAH VALIANT: Thank you so much for having me.
DEBRA: It’s been a delight. I wish you just the best with adding more and more things to your of line. I can just see you having a whole complete line where you could just go into the Valiant store…
SARAH VALIANT: Oh, thank you! That’s the goal.
DEBRA: …and walk out with whatever you want to make your house look beautiful.
So, I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. This is Toxic Free Talk Radio. You can find out more and listen to this show again (or past shows) at ToxicFreeTalkRadio.com.
WalMart Takes Initiative to Get Manufacturers to Reduce Toxic Chemicals
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Listen to my interview with Mind the Store Campaign Director Mike Schade to hear more about WalMart’s policy and what other retailers are doing to reduce toxic chemicals. |
In a stunning bold move, WalMart is now insisting that it’s vendors eliminate toxic chemicals from their products or fully disclose them to the public.
*By January 2015 all manufacturers who sell cleaning products, cosmetics, baby and personal care products will have to disclose the ingredients used in their products online. This is important because cleaning products in particular are not required by law to disclose their toxic ingredients on the label (they are required to disclose them on a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS). By January 2018, any toxic substances still in products will be required to be disclosed on the label.
*Walmart now has a list of about 10 priority toxic chemicals which they are seeking to reduce and eliminate from cleaning products, cosmetics, baby and personal care products. The list will be released later.
*Walmart will work with their suppliers to move towards safer alternatives. They are working with groups who are doing the research to make these kinds of transitions.
*Walmart brand cleaners will no longer contain toxic chemicals outlined by the EPA’s Design for the Environment program. This program has a lengthy list of chemicals that can’t be used.
This doesn’t mean that WalMart will suddenly become our one-stop-shop for all things toxic-free, but they are taking the lead to make the products they sell less toxic, and that’s a good thing. Because if a manufacturer goes less toxic for WalMart, that same less toxic product will be sold everywhere.
Cork Floor
Question from Mira
Hi Debra,
My finances are such that I can afford a small condo but not a free-standing home. My HOA will not allow wood or tile floors in my 2nd floor unit (the 2nd floor is best for me because I have mold allergies and I’m further away from the ground). They will allow carpeting or cork. I’ve been testing 100% wool carpet samples, but I’ve reacted to them thus far. There is a cork company called WE Cork located in New Hampshire that makes cork flooring that looks like wood. The MSDS for this “Serenity Floating Floor” is here:
http://www.wecork.com/wp-content/forms/FloatingFloorHDF-MSDS.
My concern of course is the formaldehyde. When I talked with them they said the formaldehyde is in the high density particle board which is sandwiched between two layers of cork; there is also a top coat of water based polyurethane sealant that is applied in a heated state which increases its strength/hardness. There will also be a polyethylene moisture barrier laid on the subfloor before the cork is laid. There would be a 3/8″ gap between the floor boards and the walls to allow for swelling without buckling. They said I could use a water based polyurethene coating on these edges to completely seal anything I could be exposed to. If I did this, do you think it could be a “safe” floor? I would alert the installers to wear protective gear.
Another cork company is Wicanders who also make cork flooring to look like wood in their Woodcomfort Floating Floor collection. Their main offices are in Portugal and I can’t find an MSDS sheet on this product.
After much searching I finally found something close to an MSDS sheet for Wicander’s. I’m passing the link along to you in case it helps you answer my question. It has some chemicals but is Greenguard certified. I’d be grateful for your take on chemical safety for someone with MCS (me). Of course I will test with samples, but I’d love your input as well.
They list formaldehyde emission as E1.
I would appreciate your thoughts on both of these products.
Thanks so much!
Debra’s Answer
I’m reluctant to say that any flooring that emits formaldehyde in any amount could be safe.
All these emissions ratings for formaldehyde don’t mean “zero.” They are small amounts.
Have you tested samples of either of these corks?
Let’s examine the WE layers in order:
* top coat of water based polyurethane sealant that is applied in a heated state which increases its strength/hardness
* cork
* high density particle board
* cork
* polyethylene moisture barrier laid on the subfloor before the cork is laid
Cork would not block formaldehyde, but the polyurethane sealant might. And more layers of sealant would block more formaldehyde, especially if you used AFM Safe Seal which is designed to encapsulate formaldehyde. If you were to apply that as a topcoat over the flooring, I think it would be pretty safe. At least the best you could do given your choices under the circumstances.
In this document from Wicanders it says that the cork is attached to PVC and high density fiberboard (outgasses formaldehyde).
Cork is only 29%.
55% is high density fiberboard.
6% PVC.
Formaldehyde emissions are class E1. That means it’s emitting formaldehyde.
Greenguard certified doesn’t mean no emissions. It means the product has less than a stated limit of emissions. If that number were 10, some products certified have 9, some 8, some 7 etc, some 0.
How to Live With a Reactive Body
My guest Larry Plesent is the Founder of Vermont Soap, He began making organic soap products because his own body was “reactive” to toxic chemicals in common personal care products. He’s now written a book called The Reactive Body Handbook, which tells what he’s learned over the past 20 years about surviving in our artificial toxic environment. 
Vermont Soap makes “100% natural and non-toxic alternatives to the chemical based personal care products now in general use, including; handmade bar soaps for sensitive skin, anti-aging products, 100% natural shower gels, castile liquid soaps and non-toxic cleaners. Most products made by Vermont Soap are certified to USDA organic standards. Larry is also a writer,philosopher, restaurateur and farmer. www.debralynndadd.com/debras-list/vermont-soap
TOXIC FREE TALK RADIO
How to Live with a Reactive Body
Host: Debra Lynn Dadd
Guest: Larry Plesent
Date of Broadcast: March 27, 2014
DEBRA: Hi, I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And this is Toxic Free Talk Radio where we talk about how to thrive in a toxic world and live toxic free.
It’s Thursday, March 27th 2014. I’m here in Clearwater, Florida—and actually around the world because this radio show is broadcast via the Internet. Every place, everybody gets Internet. And you can listen to all the shows in the archives 24/7 as well as live shows (like right now) Monday through Friday at 12 noon Eastern.
Today, my guest is Larry Plesent. He’s the founder of Vermont Soap. But here’s today not to talk about soap, but instead, he’s here to talk about his new book called The Reactive Body Handbook.
Now, this is actually a free book. You can go to the website and you can download it immediately for free. So, everything that we’re going to be talking about today, you can go get this book for free and see what he has to say about this.
It’s actually a brand new book. I think that it was just posted this morning or yesterday. You can go to ToxicFreeTalkRadio.com and look for the How to Live with a Reactive Body listing of today’s show. And in that paragraph, there’s a link to the Reactive Body Handbook. Just click there, and you can get your free copy.
Hi, Larry.
LARRY PLESENT: Debra, great! Thanks for having me on again.
DEBRA: You’re welcome. Thanks for being here. This is a subject that I’m very interested in. And I know it’ll be valuable to a lot of people.
So, you started your business, Vermont Soap, because you have a reactive body and you needed to have some soap that you could use yourself.
LARRY PLESENT: Absolutely! Well, soap and every other product.
DEBRA: Every other product, yeah.
LARRY PLESENT: I figured I was the ideal guinea pig if you will. So, I tell people, “Well, I formulate for myself. I have an extraordinarily sensitive skin. So, if it can get past me, you’re most of the way there.”
And then, I have some other people who are also part of our initial testing of new products. And their skin sensitivities go in different directions than mine, so we can get a good picture of how sensitive skinned people will handle it.
DEBRA: Well, tell us what is your definition of a “reactive body.”
LARRY PLESENT: Oh, boy! I’m so glad you asked.
DEBRA: I know! You were just waiting for me to say that.
LARRY PLESENT: Can I read right from the book or is that cheating?
DEBRA: No, you can read from the book.
LARRY PLESENT: See, now that I’m a published author, even if it’s a free book, I can quote from my book. We have a chapter here called What is a Reactive Body?. I’ll have to start right in:
“You know the old practice of bringing canaries down into coal mines? Mining, coal mining especially can release large amounts of the natural gas methane. And methane displaces the air we breathe. Without necessary amounts of oxygen from that air, humans are toast in a matter of minutes.
The canaries were brought down to sing as the miners worked. And they were more sensitive to the drop in oxygen levels than humans are. They would be the first to suffer from the lack of oxygen, and they’d stop singing.
This gave the miners a couple of minutes of notice to get the heck out of dodge and possibly save their coal-mining lives.
Now, reactive bodied people are like those sleeping canaries. We notice molecules before other people do. Reactive bodies feel and perceive the world more intensely than most.”
So, if you’re a reactive bodied person, if you’ve ever suspected that you indeed feel the world more intensely than most people around you, you’re correct. It’s not narcissism.
“This hyped up sensitivity increases the risk of becoming over-stimulated. And when you become over-stimulated, you become exhausted. You wear yourself out. And then, we become short-tempered with those we love. ”
You hear that? Reactive bodies are easily over-stimulated because they feel the world more intensely.
“A reactive body is not a psychosomatic illness as some people—and even many professionals—believe. And as I like to say, if they have a reactive body, they will not talk so foolishly.
DEBRA: I agree!
LARRY PLESENT: Now, let’s keep it real simple. Debra, you’ve heard me say it. I see it this way. Having a reactive body is kind of like having body asthma. Think of it, body asthma.
Now, asthma, by definition, is a pulmonary (lung) condition. It’s characterized by the inflammation of the bronchial lining. But a reactive body is essentially a body in which every part and system has the potential for inflammation and hypersensitivity.
Now, when something molecular—and this is a molecule-based way of looking at things—when something molecular triggers you, you might, if you’re worn down, experience a flare-up.
Now, the symptoms of a flare-up may or may not include histamine-based reactions (like true allergies), runny nose, […], et cetera, hypersensitivity to aromas—that’s very common. But also, it affects people emotionally. There’s the possibility of mood swings. Suddenly, you’re feeling claustrophobic. Mood swing, bipolar behaviors will come out, anxiety and panic. If you can’t breathe, you start to have anxiety and panic and general hypersensitivity to anything that might pose a threat to your metabolic well-being and balance.
Now, the flare-up eventually subsides. But the hypersensitivity, they linger on for days (and for some people I’ve talked to, even weeks after a flare-up, an episodic flare-up). You can just feel your hypersensitivity go up.
And after a flare-up, you’re left feeling spent and emotionally wrung-out.
Now, I believe that reactive bodies are following a normal human mechanism. I think this is a normal thing.
DEBRA: Yes, it is. I agree. I agree.
LARRY PLESENT: It’s normal.
For example—and I know you and I have talked about this—we all know somebody who’s drunk too much of some alcohol, right? “Tequila,” they go, “Oh, don’t even say the word. I feel nauseous.” So, one night, they had a big night out. They got very sick. And now, their body can’t even stand the smell of the stuff. And I’ve known people get nauseous just from talking about it. I say, “Wow! I had a sip of some amazing tequila” and they start grabbing their belly.
This is, in fact, the same principle as a reactive body response. And as I like to say, it’s your body’s way of saying—the basic premise of this book is your body is trying to talk to you. But we’re distracted and we don’t get all the messages.
DEBRA: Well, I agree with that. Our bodies know when there’s something wrong. And in all the research that I’ve done about toxic everything, in the world of toxicity, symptoms are signals to you.
LARRY PLESENT: That’s right.
DEBRA: It’s like the body is saying, “Wait!” I’ve never smoked cigarettes or anything else. But I know from watching other people that the first time you smoke a cigarette, you cough. Your body doesn’t like it. You have to keep smoking and smoking and smoking, so that you can smoke without apparently having symptoms. And then, you smoke too much, and then you’ve got emphysema and cancer and all those things.
But the point being is that your body will tell you almost immediately when you—like smoking a cigarette for the first time—are exposing it to something it doesn’t like. But what happens is we get exposed to some toxic chemical or some food or something, and then we don’t pay attention to the symptoms and the signals, and then we eat it or smoke it or whatever again, and then we stop paying attention. We’re exposed to so many things that are causing these symptoms that we can’t distinguish them even. But our body is just getting worse and worse and worse, until eventually, there’s some kind of breakdown and our bodies get overloaded.
LARRY PLESENT: You’ve got it! That is the essence and a good summary of my conclusion of 20 years of living in a reactive body.
DEBRA: When I used to work with people who were chemically sensitive—I mean, I still do as a consultant. But I used to work at a doctor’s office. We use to explain it by saying there’s like a water bottle or a rain barrel. You can be exposed to all these things, and they keep building up and building up and building up. But it’s that last drop, you put in the last drop, and you start overflowing. And that’s when you start being hypersensitive—that’s the word that you used.
LARRY PLESENT: That’s when you’re filled up.
DEBRA: When you’re filled up and your body just can’t take anymore.
So, we need to take a break, and then we’ll come back and talk more about this. You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio.
I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. My guest today is Larry Plesent. He’s the founder of Vermont Soap, but he’s also the author of The Reactive Body Handbook which is what we’re talking about today. We’ll be right back.
DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And my guest today is Larry Plesent. He’s the founder of Vermont Soap and author of The Reactive Body Handbook. And you can get a free copy of this instant download.
Just go to ToxicFreeTalkRadio.com, look for Larry’s smiling face. He’s the guy with the hat on. Just scroll down the page where it’ll say “How to Live with a Reactive Body.” You’ll see Larry. And in the middle of that paragraph, you can just click on The Reactive Body Handbook and get your free copy.
Larry, you have a statement in your book that I want to make sure that we say in big letters—like you did in the book. And that statement is:
“It’s not that I am broken. This stuff is bad for me.”
LARRY PLESENT: This stuff really is bad for me.
DEBRA: It really is bad for you. And I want to really just emphasize this because so many people with this condition, they think there’s something wrong with them, like “the environment is okay. There must be something wrong with me that I’m getting sick from the environment.”
LARRY PLESENT: Right! “My friends are eating poison and breathing poison and driving in poisonous vehicles…”
DEBRA: “They’re all okay. What’s wrong with me?”
LARRY PLESENT: “They seem to be okay.”
DEBRA: “They seem to be okay. But what’s wrong with me?”
I want to make that everybody understands that if you’re getting sick, you’re normal. You’re healthy. Your body is responding the way it’s supposed to respond. And what we need to do is have a less toxic world to live in. We need to live in less toxic homes. We need to use less toxic products like Larry’s soap products and all the other products he makes and all the products that I talk about on my website and all the products that my guests talk about. These are the things that will make us healthy. What’s going on with the world at large is these things that are making us sick.
And so let’s just say that together again.
DEBRA: It’s not that I am broken. This stuff is really bad for me.
LARRY PLESENT: It’s not that I am broken. This stuff really is bad for me.
It’s so true. And it’s so liberating to say it. Yeah, just say it out loud yourself. You’re not broken. You’re beaten up, but you’re not broken.
DEBRA: But you’re not broken. There’s not something wrong with your body.
LARRY PLESENT: No, there is…
DEBRA: It’s the world.
LARRY PLESENT: No, your body is acting differently than other people’s bodies by and large because reactive bodied people are still a very small percentage of the population. Although, increasingly, as people are overloaded with the—we use the word “toxics.”
You know, I’d like to define that a little more narrowly if we could.
DEBRA: Okay, good. Go ahead, let’s talk about that.
LARRY PLESENT: So, I like to say that I’m a natural formulator. I work with tens of thousands of molecules that are found in nature. They’re all found in nature in these useful little bundles (like vitamin C isn’t found in itself. It’s found in a bundle of bioflavinoids. And that’s how your body uses it too).
But as I say, human minds are restless minds. And because we can, we think that means we should. We’ve gone ahead and we’ve synthesized/created hundreds of thousands of molecules that never existed in nature before (or only for a few seconds, excuse me. Maybe they were burned up or something. That’s the end of it).
And not only that, we’ve created these new molecules and we’re pouring them all over the soil, the food, the air, the water.
Now, even natural things—think about it, this is something that maybe people don’t think about that much. For example, metals—copper, lead, all the metals that we use to build our civilization, nickel, aluminum—these are always found bound up in ores. They’re always tightly bound to other things, so that they’re inert because nature seeks to be leveled, to be even, to be inert (just as water seeks its own level. It’s the same principle).
So, we come along and maybe take some aluminum, and we blast that aluminum ore with all kinds of electricity to blast out the so-called impurities (everything that’s not aluminum). And now we have pure aluminum in our hands that hasn’t existed for 2 ½ billion years on this planet—even longer, since this planet was made.
So, here we are. Did we create something new? No, it’s aluminum. It’s an element. But is it its natural state to be found that way?
DEBRA: No, it’s not. See, this is the point. This is the whole point of industrialization. I’m glad that you’re talking about this.
What industry does is it takes all these raw materials and it purifies them. And so not only do we have pure aluminum, but we have pure sodium chloride instead of natural salt, and we have pure sugar instead of sugar cane, et cetera, et cetera.
Our bodies don’t like those.
LARRY PLESENT: Exactly!
DEBRA: It’s not the way it is in nature.
LARRY PLESENT: Exactly! We’re designed to use everything in a bundle. Too much pure sodium chloride is unhealthy for us. But sodium chloride found with all of the other trace minerals that are dissolved […]
DEBRA: Yes!
LARRY PLESENT: And that’s the point.
And now we see a lot of nickel poisoning. As I’ve been researching the roots of Alzheimer’s disease […], everything that I see points to metal—not just aluminum, but all metals (possibly discounting iron because it’s taken up much differently).
And I talked to chemists who have said, “You know, people are paranoid about aluminum and that it might lead to Alzheimer’s disease. I’m not paranoid about aluminum.”
I say, “You’re not?”
“No.” He says, “No, when you look at its reactivity, how your body would deal with it,” he says “I’m not really paranoid about aluminum.”
He says, “You know what I’m paranoid about?”
I said, “No…”
He said, “Nickel.”
I said, “Why is that?”
He says, “Your body needs a little bit of nickel. There’s actually a requirement for it. There’s a nutritional requirement for nickel. There’s no nutritional requirement for aluminum. So your body goes, ‘Oh, nickel, yeah! I know that stuff. Good stuff.
Oh, I’ve got too much of it? Let me store some for later. Where are we going to put this stuff anyway, body?’ And there, you start to get into problems.”
We wouldn’t normally uptake as much nickel as we do these days. We don’t even know we’re getting them.
DEBRA: Well, as you were talking about taking the metals and things out of the ground and blasting them and then having them in their pure form, also, I think that there’s a reason why nature has hidden some things underground like petroleum and coal and metals and things like that. They don’t belong in these huge amounts on the surface where the plants and animals and humans can get to them.
LARRY PLESENT: Well, that’s a very interesting point. All of nature did not evolve to live on puddles of petroleum.
DEBRA: No.
LARRY PLESENT: We’re on a very, very narrow band which is only about an inch and a half deep of the soil which is where most microorganisms, most life live. It’s a narrow, little piece of our world.
DEBRA: That’s so interesting.
We need to take another break, but we’ll be right back. You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And my guest today is Larry Plesent, founder of Vermont Soap, and author of The Reactive Body Handbook. You can go during this commercial break to ToxicFreeTalkRadio.com and click on The Reactive Body Handbook. Look for Larry wearing his hat and get your own free copy. We’ll be right back.
DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. And my guest today is Larry Plesent. He’s the founder of Vermont Soap and also the author of The Reactive Body Handbook, a new book that has just been released.
I think we’re the first ones to hear about it. You can go to ToxicFreeTalkRadio.com and download it for free. Just scroll down the page until you see Larry with his hat on. And right next to it, it says The Reactive Body Handbook. Click on that and you can get your free copy.
Oh, I know what I want to ask you next. Tell us how you discovered that you had a reactive body.
LARRY PLESENT: Oh, that’s a great question. How did I discover I had a reactive body? Nothing worked! I was broken.
DEBRA: It’s broken!
LARRY PLESENT: I was broken. I had the worst depression of my life. It lasted three days, Debra. It was terrible. And then, I woke up on the fourth day. I looked at myself in the mirror, and I had this big sad [frown] on my face and I said, “Alright!
Enough of that.”
DEBRA: I should tell you, all listeners, that I have talked a number of times with Larry. And I’ve met him in person. And he is always one of the most cheerful people that I’ve ever met.
LARRY PLESENT: Thank you. You have to be. It’s a choice.
DEBRA: You have to be.
LARRY PLESENT: It’s a choice.
And let me just say just to kind of side step your question just for a minute (and then we’ll get back to it). Having a reactive body means—once you recognize it, you take off the blinders, you go, “Oh, okay. I’ve got this reactive body, fine”—it means that you’re in training.
In fact, I’ve used that line. “What do you do with that big pile of kale on your plate?”
“Well, I’m in training.”
“What are you in training for?”
And I look up […], “Brother, life.”
You have to have a sense of humor. First of all, you’ve got a whole negative cascade of hormones when you’re feeling down. And you get an all positive cascade of hormones when you’re feeling up. So, the cheapest way to live a long, healthy, happy life is to practice being positive.
And by the way, what that means is—in case you’re wondering—it doesn’t mean you don’t get annoyed, you don’t get upset, you don’t get angry. It means you let it go as quick as you can.
DEBRA: You know, my grandmother, she would tell me not to frown and not to get angry. Well, you’re going to get angry.
But the point is that people who are down all the time, she said, “When you get upset, it’s poison to your body.” She actually used that word. She said, “Getting upset, getting angry, being negative is poison to your body.” And it does release, as you’ve said, negative hormones in your body that depress your body, your physical body.
LARRY PLESENT: Well, as a middle-aged man in business in America, I watch other middle-aged men around my age in business eating up their arteries with worry and stress.
DEBRA: Right!
LARRY PLESENT: Where are you going with this guy? You’ve got to live every day. Great! You’re 70 years old. You sell your business, you cash out. And you’re walking wounded the rest of your life. You’ve eaten yourself up. That’s not winning.
DEBRA: No, it isn’t. And we also know that a lot of chemical exposures actually make you feel depressed, so it’s more difficult.
LARRY PLESENT: That’s so true.
DEBRA: So, I think for myself, I decide to be happy. I think it’s very easy to just go around not being cheerful and…
LARRY PLESENT: Oh, it’s a habit.
DEBRA: Yeah.
LARRY PLESENT: It’s a habit to be cultivated. It absolutely is.
And I’ve talked to people who are generally happy people about this. I said, “So, how did you arrive at this state? Were you born this way?” And one woman said—again, her grandmother taught her. She said, “Wake up with a smile. It doesn’t cost you anything. It’s just as easy to wake up with a smile on your face as a frown.”
DEBRA: Absolutely! I totally agree.
So, tell us. How did you discover you had a reactive body?
LARRY PLESENT: Sure! Let’s see. I couldn’t use anything. I guess it was really about the soap. I could put up with only washing my hair once a week or something like that and chronic, strange scalp issues that I had and all kinds of reactions.
But it was when there was no soap left that I knew about it that I could find that I could use. And for me, that kind of pushed me over the edge in a way.
I don’t know if I’ve told you this story last year. I hope I didn’t. But I was in a country fair in Vermont. I think it was 1990 or 1991. I found some goats milk soap. I took it home. I’ve used it. And this contact dermatitis I’ve had for eight years on my arm went away after the third day. I said, “Well, there’s either something magic about goat’s milk or there’s something magic about farm soap, the process of making this kind of soap.”
And it turned out, as far as I can tell, there’s nothing magic about goat’s milk, but there’s everything special about making handmade soap (which it takes a month to make a bar).
So, I looked at that. I said, “Well, here’s a craft item.” It’s hardly available in any stores back in 1990, 1991. I couldn’t find it anywhere. I said, “Well, hey, I know! I’ll be the guy who takes this handcrafted item, perfects it and starts making millions of bars, so everybody who has sensitive skin can use it.” It’s the process of making it that’s different than making other kinds of soap. You get a very, very mild bar.
So, I said, “Well, that’s it! I’ll make soap the rest of my life. That’s great.”
So, after about eight years into it, I felt like that I’ve taken it as far as I really could for what I was doing with bars, bar soaps.
So I began formulating. My goal became (and continues to be) to replace every single item in your household with non-toxic, effective and cost-effective products that you can buy factory direct. And that’s what our mission is. We replace yucky stuff with yummy stuff.
DEBRA: Yeah! And you’re doing a really good job with it too.
LARRY PLESENT: Oh, I know! You’re the same. Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
And we have a new completely—I have to say it’s completely unscented. But soap does have a mild soapy aroma. You can’t get rid of that completely. We quadruple filter it and carbon filter it. We do all kinds of things. It still smells a little bit like soap.
So, when I say “unscented” or “scentless,” that’s what I mean.
DEBRA: Well, I think that “unscented,” the general term of “unscented” means that there’s no added scent. I think that there are some people who think that unscented means that it has no smell at all. But you really can’t get away from—
This is an interesting, ironic thing. If you make something out of natural ingredients, it’s going to have its own scent from the ingredients—its own smell. The only way to get something that smells like absolutely nothing is to process it industrially. And so you have these products that smell like nothing that are made out of petroleum and crude oil. And then, you have things that are natural that have their own smell.
LARRY PLESENT: …which is usually something nice.
DEBRA: It is usually something nice. I don’t mind something that has a smell that’s natural. I don’t mind. I mean, at this point, I’m able to use products with essential oils. I didn’t used to be able to do that.
LARRY PLESENT: Oh, yeah, that means you’re healing.
DEBRA: Yeah, yeah.
So, we’re going to take another break. You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. My guest is Larry Plesent. He’s the founder of Vermont Soap and the author of The Reactive Body Handbook. You can go to ToxicFreeTalkRadio.com and click on The Reactive Body Handbook link, and get your own free copy of this book. It’s a good book to have. We’ll be right back.
DEBRA: You’re listening to Toxic Free Talk Radio. I’m Debra Lynn Dadd. My guest today is Larry Plesent, founder of Vermont Soap and author of The Reactive Body Handbook which is free. You can download it instantaneously from his website. You can just go to ToxicFreeTalkRadio.com and click on The Reactive Body Handbook link to do so.
Larry, you mentioned so much information on this book. You talk about not only what is a reactive body, but the science behind the reactive body, what triggers flare-ups. And you also have a lot of suggestion on what you can do to make your body less reactive. So, let’s talk about some of those.
LARRY PLESENT: Oh, yeah. This is a handbook.
DEBRA: It really is a handbook.
LARRY PLESENT: You’re supposed to walk away with specifics.
DEBRA: Yeah, I mean this isn’t just theoretical. This is really Larry’s chronicle of his 20 years experience living this way and what has worked for him.
So, tell us some of the things that have worked for you that made your body feel better.
LARRY PLESENT: Oh, great! So I’m just going to run quickly down through the list.
DEBRA: Good!
LARRY PLESENT: First of all, maximize nutrition. No empty calories. I mean you’re in training here. There’s no room in your training diet for empty calories. You are maximizing nutrition. And that’s a systematic way of life. It’s an ongoing process of improvement.
So, if you’re just starting that journey, you can start by saying, “You know what? I’m just going to cut out dessert. That’s a really good thing. And I’m going to replace those calories with nutrition-packed calories and, along the way, taking supplements” like the good stuff that you have, Debra. And there’s a huge difference in supplements as people will find. It really makes a difference. So there, right there.
General good advice any grandmother would have given you—fresh air and sunlight. Lots of fresh, lots of sunlight.
DEBRA: I agree. I agree with everything you’ve said.
LARRY PLESENT: Of course! And water, try to get the best water you can. And anybody who has spent any time around me knows, I am vehemently, vehemently, I’m extremely against plastics in the food and water supply. There are no good plastics. People always ask me, “What’s the better plastic?” Well…
DEBRA: There are none.
LARRY PLESENT: There are none. We can give you plastics that have less phthalates. And phthalates basically are miracle growers for cancer cells. Or we can give you plastics that don’t off-gas phthalates, but they off-gas things like bisphenol-A.
DEBRA: It just destroys your endocrine system. And when your endocrine system goes, that’s it.
LARRY PLESENT: Oh, yeah, besides the fact they were estrogenifying our population which is very, very strange. It’s a very strange thing.
So, get the best water you can.
And while we’re on water, Debra, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard me say this—we’ve had a couple of conversations—that I don’t travel well?
DEBRA: No, I’ve never heard you say that.
LARRY PLESENT: Oh! I don’t travel well. Reactive bodied people do not travel well. It’s basic. You have strange foods, strange smells, strange carpet preservatives, all kinds of weird things, the air fresheners. God help us!
But I would go and I would go to conferences—I’d go down in New York City, for example—and I’d come back, I’d be sick for two weeks. I go away even for a couple of days, come back—
Now, I started coming back covered with rashes all over my torso. Quite frankly, I thought I had staph-A. I thought I had MRSA. I came back from Africa, I was sick for a month. And it turned out—one of the things wrong with me anyway—was that I’m highly reactive to chloramine.
It’s not new, but it’s new to most municipalities. A lot of municipalities are switching from chlorine or free chlorine to chloramine because it makes the water taste better.
DEBRA: Actually, I think it’s because it lasts longer. As the water goes through the pipe, it has to travel for miles to get from where it’s being delivered to your house. And so the chloramine actually lasts longer to continue to hold the disinfectant quality.
LARRY PLESENT: Yeah! It works better.
DEBRA: It’s chlorine and ammonia. It works better.
LARRY PLESENT: It also almost put me in the hospital.
DEBRA: Well, it also kills all the fish in the aquarium.
LARRY PLESENT: —and kill the fish in the aquarium. And if you brew beer with it, there’s a poisonous reaction that occurs.
You can look that up on Wikipedia.
So, I went away to—Debra, I’m at an organic farming conference eating organic , farm fresh foods, and I have a complete collapse. I had a flare-up. My immune system collapses. My whole body breaks out in a pulsating red rash.
Well, guess what? I was drinking the water and I was bathing it. And by the second day, people were saying, “Hey, Larry, you look really healthy. You look really strong. Have you been working out?” “No, I’ve been working in the woods.” “Hey, that’ great, okay” to my neighbor who came over and he said, “Look, I’m a trained EMT, and I’m making the call. I’m taking you to the emergency room.”
I said, “No, the doctors can’t help me.”
He said, “Do you need a glass of water?”
I said, “No, that’s probably what did it.”
And then, I finally came to realize that, in fact, it was the chloramine.
Mind you, I’ve been working in Monrovia, Liberia doing some volunteer work the last few years. And it turns out, they disinfect their water lines with chloramine as well which explains why I kept getting sick.
So, get the best water you can. And best of luck with it! Know what your water department is putting in your water. It may be stranger than you think.
DEBRA: That is really important. As long as you’ve bought yourself—I’ll just say that if you go to ToxicFreeTalkRadio.com, I have a little ad over in the right-hand corner that says “the water filter I use in my home.” And it really is the best water filter that I’ve found in 30 years.
I used to say to people, “Make sure that you test your water first and get the right water filter for your water.” But this filter actually removes everything.
LARRY PLESENT: My web guy bought your filter.
DEBRA: Oh, great!
LARRY PLESENT: When we work together at his home office, I drink copious amounts of water from your filter.
DEBRA: Oh, I love hearing that. Well, did you get one for yourself, Larry?
LARRY PLESENT: Well, unfortunately, at home, we have our own well. I know everything that goes in there.
DEBRA: Oh, great! Well, I’m glad you liked the water. I’m glad you liked the water. Everybody that I know, everybody that comes to my house and drinks it buys one.
LARRY PLESENT: Well, Jackson said it’s the best water filter he’s ever seen. Him and his wife, especially his wife, have reactive bodies.
DEBRA: I’m so glad to hear this. Yeah, it really is.
LARRY PLESENT: And I hope they don’t mind. I just said a name. It doesn’t indicate…
DEBRA: Yeah, they won’t know who Jackson is.
LARRY PLESENT: But this is a wonderful couple that has Lyme Disease. They are battling Lyme using the exact, same technique (and others) that I use to keep my reactive body functioning.
DEBRA: Well, you know, a long time ago when I was first struggling with this exact, same thing myself many years ago and I started studying, my logic was, “If the industrial toxic world has made me sick, there must be some other alternate universe where things would make me well.” And I started looking at all the different ways, all the things that you’re talking about—how could I remove the toxic chemicals, how could I eat healthy and get good nutrition.
And what I discovered was that if you really look to nature, if you really look at the basics of what supports life, there’s a way to be healthy that applies that is the antidote to any body condition. Anything that’s wrong with you, if you do these handful of things, you’ll get better.
LARRY PLESENT: You know, I can almost feel the audience saying, “Now, come on, Debra, what about cancer? I need to go and get radiation to cure cancer, right?”
DEBRA: No, no. Actually, what you need to do is stop causing cancer, then your body will heal. And I really have researched this. I really looked at it. And so I decided that I was just going to live this way regardless—I wasn’t going to wait to get sick. I mean, my immune system was already shot, but I rebuilt my immune system and I’m in the process of rebuilding my endocrine system. And I can tell which body systems have been affected by my body.
But the answer to everything is that you get the chemicals bond, you eat organic foods, you get nutrient-dense foods, you exercise, so that you can move things around in your body, you get good rest, you breathe clean air, you get some sunshine, and you’ll be healthy.
LARRY PLESENT: Everybody’s grandparents who came over from the old country would be very happy to hear you saying that.
DEBRA: But it really is the answer to everything.
LARRY PLESENT: Time-tried and true advice. But it’s getting harder and harder to get food that actually is nutritious or water that’s actually safe to drink and air that’s actually safe to breathe.
DEBRA: That’s right. That’s the problem. That is exactly the problem. I mean I could fill my house with your products. We could all fill our houses with your products. But then we walk outside and the air is not fit to breathe.
I was reading something (and I think it’s going in my newsletter next week) about the number one environmental problem—air pollution.
LARRY PLESENT: Well, yeah now that there’s radiation blown around.
DEBRA: Yeah, that’s right. And so not only do we need to just—I mean, we just can’t go to some Garden of Eden spot on Earth that isn’t polluted anymore. It doesn’t exist. And so what we need to be doing is we need to be doing things that get the toxic chemicals out of our body that we can’t […]
LARRY PLESENT: That’s right. You have to continuous. It’s not just you do a big cleanse. And I’m not telling people to over-cleanse over-fast or any of that stuff. But certainly, Debra, you’re exactly right. You have to get what’s in you out.
There are some really good methods for that.
DEBRA: I have to interrupt you though, Larry. I hate to do this. But in a few seconds, the music is going to come on and the show is going to be over.
LARRY PLESENT: You have to have me back on!
DEBRA: I will, I will. But I want to say thank you for being with us.
LARRY PLESENT: Well, thank you, Debra.
DEBRA: Larry’s book is The Reactive Body Handbook. You can go to ToxicFreeTalkRadio.com and download it. We’ll talk again soon!
Surviving A Toxic Stay in the Hospital
Question from SallyS
Debra,
I have MCS and am facing a lot of medical procedures, frankly part of the dread comes from the exposure to all the toxins in the medical arena.
From the medications to all the plastic and toxic chemicals used to clean such, all the way to the beds and the food. Last year I was hospitalized and the worst thing was the smell, the humming of machinery, and the awful things that I cam in contact with such as plastic, vinyl bed, and so on. The more doctors I see the worse it gets, seeming to accumulate in my system and throwing things off – it takes some time to recuperate from each occurrence and feels like going backwards.
Have you any suggestions as to how I can better cope with such? I truly appreciate any input.
Sally
Debra’s Answer
First, I know there are some healthcare organizations who are becoming less toxic.
Kaiser Permanente is one.
There’s an organization called Health Care Without Harm that is working internationally to “transform the health sector worldwide, promoting environmental health and justice.”
You might contact them to find out which hospitals in your area might be less toxic.
Readers any suggestions from your own experience with a hospital stay?
Pest control in-the-wall system
Question from Andie
Hi — am looking for a new home in a del Webb community (retirement for active adults). Many of their homes have a system called Taexx pest control in-the-wall. I googled it and it seems as if the insecticide can waft out through the outlets, etc right into your living space! Any idea about this system? Thank you!
Debra’s Answer
Sounds like a bad idea to me. I wouldn’t live in this house. Do they say anywhere what pesticide is being used?
Basement Floor Options
Question from Joy
I am looking at flooring for an under grade basement floor. I have been warned not to use solid wood as it will warp.
I am looking at engineered wood (Eco Timber), strand bamboo (Prefinished Solid Locking Strand Woven Bamboo Flooring) or Cork (Wicanders).
I am told they all use no VOC adhesives.
I want to be sure they are safe?
Thank you!
Debra’s Answer
Here’s a past post about Eco Timber Engineered Flooring.
Strand Woven Bamboo Flooring does emit formaldehyde. It’s made by cutting the bamboo into strips, shredding it, intertwining the shreads with a “bonding agent” and heating it or not heating it depending on the color. You can ask for a formaldehyde emissions report. Here’s one I got quite easily over the phone that shows 0.05 formaldehyde emissions from this particular brand: bamboo formaldehyde emissions test results.
Cork, I understand from a previous post today is adhered to a layer of fiberboard, which may emit formaldehyde (see Cork Floor).
Is there a reason why you can’t install ceramic tile, or natural linoleum, or paint the floor. I honestly would install any of these in my house.
